Aside from an 'arms race' between different road users that pedestrians and cyclists cannot ever hope to win, you normalise the fact that everyone has to dress up to be near a road. This means that walking, horse riding and cycling becomes marginalised and seen as dangerous activities and woe betide the person who was not dressed in high vis who dared use the road. It would be far better for drivers to drive safely so that vulnerable road users are not forced into modifying their actions for the selfish others. You can see how it is heading, there are already plenty of projects for vulnerable road users to wear a beacon to alert drivers of their presence, I can just see the first court case where the driver is acquitted because the vulnerable road user had a flat battery on their beacon and was therefore not detected by the system.
Organ donors in motion.
- Thread starter Racing roadkill
- Start date
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Aside from an 'arms race' between different road users that pedestrians and cyclists cannot ever hope to win, you normalise the fact that everyone has to dress up to be near a road. This means that walking, horse riding and cycling becomes marginalised and seen as dangerous activities and woe betide the person who was not dressed in high vis who dared use the road. It would be far better for drivers to drive safely so that vulnerable road users are not forced into modifying their actions for the selfish others. You can see how it is heading, there are already plenty of projects for vulnerable road users to wear a beacon to alert drivers of their presence, I can just see the first court case where the driver is acquitted because the vulnerable road user had a flat battery on their beacon and was therefore not detected by the system.
Hasn't that horse already bolted so to speak?
Horse riding is a dangerous activity. Always has been, always will be.
Cycling we can make safer, but in the meantime cyclists can also take steps to be safe, and much of it is done for us
I mean, most, if not all, cycling gear has at least reflective elements. To be road legal you have to have reflectors on your bike.
As a driver I would prefer to be able to see people clearly. I think it helps both parties.
I cannot forsee the court case that you suggest as the driver retains primary responsibility for their vehicle until we reach autonomous vehicle level 5, which is still a few years away.
Horse riding is a dangerous activity. Always has been, always will be.
Cycling we can make safer, but in the meantime cyclists can also take steps to be safe, and much of it is done for us
I mean, most, if not all, cycling gear has at least reflective elements. To be road legal you have to have reflectors on your bike.
As a driver I would prefer to be able to see people clearly. I think it helps both parties.
I cannot forsee the court case that you suggest as the driver retains primary responsibility for their vehicle until we reach autonomous vehicle level 5, which is still a few years away.
Smokin Joe
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
Reflective clothing is useless in daylight as it doesn't reflect anything. Hi viz shows up no more than black during the day, despite everyone working outdoors seeming to be covered in the stuff now.
Of course you need lights at night or in poor visibility (And I mean poor, not just when the sun goes behind a cloud), but you can overdo the number of lights and the brightness of them to the point you become a distraction to other people instead of just making them aware of you. Lights are now starting to get far too bright on cars, and in many case on bikes that I see with a searchlight on the front and half a dozen flashing lights hanging from themselves and their bikes.
Of course you need lights at night or in poor visibility (And I mean poor, not just when the sun goes behind a cloud), but you can overdo the number of lights and the brightness of them to the point you become a distraction to other people instead of just making them aware of you. Lights are now starting to get far too bright on cars, and in many case on bikes that I see with a searchlight on the front and half a dozen flashing lights hanging from themselves and their bikes.
winjim
Smash the cistern
I'm not sure you do need lights on a bike. Under streetlights you're perfectly visible and if drivers have their headlights switched on then reflectors are adequate.
I do hope everybody has their pedal reflectors fitted...
Rule 60
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.
Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24
The "must" indicates that it is a legal requirement
At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp.
Law RVLR regs 13, 18 & 24
The "must" indicates that it is a legal requirement
Smokin Joe
Legendary Member
- Location
- Bare headed cyclist, Smoker
I think we know that.
One of the biggest occurrence of injuries fir cyclists in broken collarbones. A sensible precaution cycling would be done protective armour to prevent this. It makes sense, why wouldn’t you? Frankly if you get knocked off and break your collarbone it’s really your fault for not taking the most basic of precautions.
winjim
Smash the cistern
...at night...
Yes. But given that most cars these days have automatic headlights which are on in poor weather, it's not unreasonable for a cyclist to do the same.
Markymark, we can "what if" all you like, but your logic doesn't work. It's not a sensible precaution to don protective armour per se. It is however, a sensible precaution to look at the reasons people sustain those injuries and to work out the best way to mitigate them. This may include body armour, but it is just as likely to include behaviour modification, accident reduction by improving visibility etc.
You can all choose to take absolutely no safety precautions. I can't help thinking that it's a good idea to prepare for today's conditions rather than a future utopian paradise. An epitaph of "Well it's not my fault you didn't see me" is of no use to me.
glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
You may do as you please on your bike but don't be suggesting a dead cyclist asked for it by not adhering to your policy.
winjim
Smash the cistern
It is unreasonable, and more to the point it's not a legal requirement, which is what your previous post was about.
I bet one of my wife's bikes that everyone here takes safety precautions. You draw your arbitrary line, others draw theirs. To blame any cyclist for being out of your line is as flawed as a cyclist who wears body armour blaming you for not.
At some cyclists did not have to have lights at night either (I think 1930s) and the Cycling community fought very hard to prevent them being made mandatory. They argued that the onus is on the driver to be driving slower and to be able to see where they are going. One of the argument was that wildlife and potholes don't have lights so drivers should be more aware. Lights were then made a legal requirement and still cyclists are being killed by drivers. Can you not see the parallels with high vis or 'beacons'?
Glow worm
Legendary Member
- Location
- Near Newmarket
I know. It's almost as if they are using an entirely segregated cycling route in a city with some of the best cycling infrastructure in the world.
Not all of us live in the Netherlands.
Milkfloat - cars were considerably slower in the 1930s. Using lights is not the reason that cyclists are being killed.
Markmark - not sure why you think I am blaming people. But then your logic is difficult to follow.
winjim - i'll continue to use my lights in bad weather, and continue to espouse it as being a good idea.
glasgowcyclist - at no point did I say anyone was "asking for it".
Glad to clear that up.
This has been fun. I wish you all the best folks, regardless of what safety precautions you like to take :-)
Not all of us live in the Netherlands.
Milkfloat - cars were considerably slower in the 1930s. Using lights is not the reason that cyclists are being killed.
Markmark - not sure why you think I am blaming people. But then your logic is difficult to follow.
winjim - i'll continue to use my lights in bad weather, and continue to espouse it as being a good idea.
glasgowcyclist - at no point did I say anyone was "asking for it".
Glad to clear that up.
This has been fun. I wish you all the best folks, regardless of what safety precautions you like to take :-)
