derrick
The Glue that binds us together.
- Location
- On the edge of London
You need to get a more efficient one.
Petition for law change - Ebike Assist Limit
- Thread starter jowwy
- Start date
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Both my ebikes are cadence sensor systems and i really dont need much input at all to get to the max motor speed. I can simply stay in a low gear and just turn the pedals without needing to put any pressure on the pedals that i would have to do at higher gears.
Usually i like to get up into higher gears, so at least i feel like i'm putting some work in myself. It also means i'm getting some exercise and getting more range from the battery into the bargain. But with cadence sensors, you really can attain full speed of the motor with hardly any effort if you want. This would work the same if the cut off speed was 20 mph.
Its torque sensor systems where you have to put more energy in to get more power from the motor. These work by how much pressure you are putting on the pedals. So you need to be in a higher gear to get more from the motor.
Cadence sensor, torque sensor..... two different systems.
[QUOTE="Afnug, post: 5647987, member: 28851"]A lot of normal bike riders travel up to 20 mph, I presume you wouldn't be happy for them to have, registration plates, periodic safety examination, compulsory insurance & rider licencing,
(some people think this is a good idea) you still have to pedal ebikes.[/QUOTE]
I think a big difference is that someone who, on flat roads, can keep up 20mph will be an experienced cyclist. Anybody with minimal experience would be able to ride an unrestricted e-bike at that speed.
EDIT
Expanding on that a little. When commuting, or on a sportive if there is some "Dangerous Dick on a Bike", clearly daft, inconsiderate or novice, it is straightforward enough to put the hammer down briefly, gap them and settle back to normal speed. Having Dangerous Dick on an unrestricted e-bike would be a recipe for chaos.
(some people think this is a good idea) you still have to pedal ebikes.[/QUOTE]
I think a big difference is that someone who, on flat roads, can keep up 20mph will be an experienced cyclist. Anybody with minimal experience would be able to ride an unrestricted e-bike at that speed.
EDIT
Expanding on that a little. When commuting, or on a sportive if there is some "Dangerous Dick on a Bike", clearly daft, inconsiderate or novice, it is straightforward enough to put the hammer down briefly, gap them and settle back to normal speed. Having Dangerous Dick on an unrestricted e-bike would be a recipe for chaos.
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Pale Rider
Legendary Member
You need to get a more efficient one.
Strange to relate, he needs to get a less efficient one to produce the 'no load' experience.
Pretty much my experience. It would be interesting to measure power at the crank at the same time as power at the wheel in watts, so see just how much of the total power comes from one's legs...
Jeez......
Sure, we might as well be inclusive and allow cars on cycle paths too!
Motorbikes?
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
That is true, but matters are complicated by the popular Bosch system which has cadence and torque (and speed) sensors working together.
Effort is also altered by the motor controller via eco, tour, sport and turbo settings.
Turbo requires the least effort and it might be tempting to run in that mode all the time.
But it can be jerky, particularly changing gear, and more importantly it flattens the battery quickly.
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Yes it would have complicated my post if i'd gone into that further. Basically i was just making the point that a cadence system, which is the only one that keeps getting mentioned on this thread, doesn't require a lot of input to attain max speed.
I think a big difference is that someone who, on flat roads, can keep up 20mph will be an experienced cyclist. Anybody with minimal experience would be able to ride an unrestricted e-bike at that speed.[/QUOTE]
No they wouldnt as they would still need the ability to keep pedalling to attain that cut off speed.....are you really saying only experienced riders can go at 20+ mph.
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glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
I don't want to misunderstand your point here so could you explain that a bit more? It looks like you're saying you would not have an upper speed limit for assistance but your next sentence seems to contradict that when you write
I can't reconcile the two statements.
I would totally remove the upper assist speed altogether......and allow the bikes to assist to any speed, but that would still require a huge input from the rider if you governed the motor and torque settings.....therefore if a rider has the ability to get more speed out of the motor by pedalling more, then good on them. But for people who lack that ability would still be fully supported.
That would increase their viability of use for the commuter market, get people out of cars, less congestion, pollution...more people getting excercise and lower the burden on the nhs.
But i cant see that happening.
- Location
- The Cronk
Mod note: we'll take some time out on this one to allow things to cool down.
- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
Mod note:
The thread has now been cleaned up. Along the way posts have been edited or deleted - not all deleted posts were problematic, they just made little sense when some of the problematic ones were deleted.
As it stands the thread is no longer totally cohesive. The alternative would be to delete the whole thread and ask members to start all over again - hopefully we would all agree that this would be a worse option than the pruning of the original thread.
Being human it is entirely possible that some posts in the thread may still need to be deleted - if you feel that any post does so please report it and we will take a look and make a decision on it. Please do not quote and answer or comment on it in-thread.
With the thread now being open we would like to ask all members who were uncivil prior to the lock to desist. Thank you in advance.
Any member that is not civil going forward from this point will be removed from the thread.
The thread has now been cleaned up. Along the way posts have been edited or deleted - not all deleted posts were problematic, they just made little sense when some of the problematic ones were deleted.
As it stands the thread is no longer totally cohesive. The alternative would be to delete the whole thread and ask members to start all over again - hopefully we would all agree that this would be a worse option than the pruning of the original thread.
Being human it is entirely possible that some posts in the thread may still need to be deleted - if you feel that any post does so please report it and we will take a look and make a decision on it. Please do not quote and answer or comment on it in-thread.
With the thread now being open we would like to ask all members who were uncivil prior to the lock to desist. Thank you in advance.
Any member that is not civil going forward from this point will be removed from the thread.
- Location
- Somewhere wet & hilly in NW England.
Posted on behalf of @Crackle who just missed the lock prior to hitting the post button.
Having thought about this, I don't see the a reason why the limit shouldn't be raised. Will it be abused, are there people who would be dangerous on faster bikes, sure I bet there are in the same way lots of other things are abused, we don't legislate to the lowest common denominator though but we do have laws to catch people flouting legislation, so I generally think pointing to such occurrences is moot.
I also think that it's a bit of a pie chart as to who uses e-bikes and I don't think that the demographic is quite the same. Potentially e-bikes as cycle to work initiatives could be getting people out of cars and off the roads, this is a good thing, as is getting people generally out doing some form of exercise , even if it's lighter than what we as 'ordinary' cyclists would do.
Whether it should be 20mph is I suppose, up to debate, 15.6 is rather arbitrary, perhaps some compromise where the limit is a little higher with an ability to boost speed for short intervals of 30 seconds or so for getting out of situations which requires that extra speed, such as pulling away uphill at traffic lights, accelerating at junction, in much the same way we all give it a bit of welly for short periods when we need to but I think that needs to be looked at, not from our perspective but from the perspective of those outside our demographic.
The other question than is the mixing of two almost different forms of transport on mixed use facilities, that's rather more difficult to solve and I see this is a problem in the Netherlands now but of itself I don't think this is a reason not to think about allowing more latitude, like I said, we shouldn't legislate to the lowest common denominator.
Having thought about this, I don't see the a reason why the limit shouldn't be raised. Will it be abused, are there people who would be dangerous on faster bikes, sure I bet there are in the same way lots of other things are abused, we don't legislate to the lowest common denominator though but we do have laws to catch people flouting legislation, so I generally think pointing to such occurrences is moot.
I also think that it's a bit of a pie chart as to who uses e-bikes and I don't think that the demographic is quite the same. Potentially e-bikes as cycle to work initiatives could be getting people out of cars and off the roads, this is a good thing, as is getting people generally out doing some form of exercise , even if it's lighter than what we as 'ordinary' cyclists would do.
Whether it should be 20mph is I suppose, up to debate, 15.6 is rather arbitrary, perhaps some compromise where the limit is a little higher with an ability to boost speed for short intervals of 30 seconds or so for getting out of situations which requires that extra speed, such as pulling away uphill at traffic lights, accelerating at junction, in much the same way we all give it a bit of welly for short periods when we need to but I think that needs to be looked at, not from our perspective but from the perspective of those outside our demographic.
The other question than is the mixing of two almost different forms of transport on mixed use facilities, that's rather more difficult to solve and I see this is a problem in the Netherlands now but of itself I don't think this is a reason not to think about allowing more latitude, like I said, we shouldn't legislate to the lowest common denominator.
