Petition to Shimano to introduce cassettes starting with 14

[Dogtrousers]

I think that most modern cyclist been a bit brainwashed by the trickle down from racing and don't really know better.

When I started I had 3x5 gears with a range of roughly 3x.
Top gear was from just over 100" down to roughly 35".
So I had to pick my own gears with care.

Now 2x10 with a range of 4.5x is standard.
In the same time the big chainring went from 53t to 50t and sprockets from 14t to 11t.
So top gear is roughly 20% higher but the greater range means that the lowest gears is also around 20% lower.
So there is lot less need to pick your own gears.

Once you start to look beyond "bog standard" gears then you start to realize how bad the "bog standard" gears are for average riders.
How many normal riders need to cycle downhill at +35 mph .........
But if you shrink all the "bog standard" gears by roughly 10%-20% to shift the gears to a more useful range then you'll probably fall into a marketing disaster because that implies that you're not good enough to use racing gears.
Hence the brainwashing from racing.

YMMV .........

Well ... yes and no.

As you say, the "bog standard range" is now much wider. 50/34 11-32 - which is probably the commonest on new bikes is 28" to 120" (or thereabouts )

That's not "bad" by anyone's estimation, although it's true that most normal riders don't need the top two little 11 & 12T sprockets, it's certainly close to one size fits all, and that's what the industry likes. It means fewer different parts.

I think your brainwashing theory is just a tad patronising. I doubt anyone, or very very few, purchasers would turn down a bike because it would mean they are "not good enough to use racing gears". They are probably more concerned with "will I be able to get up that big hill and avoid walking".

I agree that things would probably be even more suitable for the average rider if the chainring size came down a little, but as it stands the "bog standard range" is pretty good.

I love playing around with spreadsheets, and by using GPS and cadence data I know exactly how much I use my 11T sprocket. It's not very often at all. But I don't resent its presence. On the contrary, I quite like it - especially for the long gentle descent off the N Downs at the end of some of my rides. I freewheel most of the way and top it up occasionally with a few slow revs in top gear.

 

[Tigerbiten]

I'm old school.
A 120"-26" range isn't bad if you run a triple up front.
Then the most commonly used gear which you'll be using on the flat are roughly around the middle of the cassette when your in the middle ring.
And you've the big ring for fun downhill runs and the small ring for hill climbing.
Just getting rid of the middle ring and the gears you need on the flat start to need a lot of cross chaining.
If you drop the whole range by ~10%-20% then you'll shift the flatland gears closer to the middle of the cassette.
Or just drop the top end by the same 10%-20% and maybe you'll get rid of a nasty step in the gears caused by trying to keep the range.
This is where alpine doubles and/or home built cassettes can work well.

I'm probably the worse one here for an ultra high top end as mine's only 178".
But then I do have 24 gears with roughly 13.6% between each gear for an 18x range on my bent trike.
And I'll freely admit it is "FUN" pedalling slowly down a hill at over 40 mph ............

 

[Will Spin]

I always thought that I was of the opinion that the 11 tooth end of the cassette wasn't of much use to me, however as a matter of interest I decided to try to keep a mental note of the gears I was using during today's ride (I usually just pedal and click away without taking too much notice of what's happening down below, so to speak). I've got a 50, 34 crankset and 11-34 cassette. On a significant number of occasions I looked down and I noticed that I was in the 34 - 11 gear, (i.e small - small). This is due to the cycling terrain being fairly hilly with frequent short sharp hills, so rather than jump up onto the big ring on the front I'll keep the momentum up by using the full range of the rear cassette. So maybe that 11t ring is of more use than I thought.

 

[DCBassman]

I always thought that I was of the opinion that the 11 tooth end of the cassette wasn't of much use to me, however as a matter of interest I decided to try to keep a mental note of the gears I was using during today's ride (I usually just pedal and click away without taking too much notice of what's happening down below, so to speak). I've got a 50, 34 crankset and 11-34 cassette. On a significant number of occasions I looked down and I noticed that I was in the 34 - 11 gear, (i.e small - small). This is due to the cycling terrain being fairly hilly with frequent short sharp hills, so rather than jump up onto the big ring on the front I'll keep the momentum up by using the full range of the rear cassette. So maybe that 11t ring is of more use than I thought.

I use triples, and spend most time using the whole cassette from the middle ring, so the tiny one does see use. Just not a lot!

 

[Ming the Merciless]

The idea that the 11 is if of no use is just muddled up thinking. Get a smaller big ring if you find the big / small combination too high a gear for you.

 

[Racing roadkill]

The idea that the 11 is if of no use is just muddled up thinking. Get a smaller big ring if you find the big / small combination too high a gear for you.

It’s not “muddled up thinking” it’s fairly simple. Just about every leisure cyclist, can’t use the 11 tooth sprocket, efficiently enough for it to be any practical use to them. It’s a waste of space, for most ‘normal cyclists’.

 

[HLaB]

Petition to Shimano to introduce cassettes starting with 14

,
No thanks, I prefer having a wider a wider range and the market seems to too. You can get cassettes like that (starting at 14t) but they are generally more costly as the overall market demand is low.

 

[Racing roadkill]

I always thought that I was of the opinion that the 11 tooth end of the cassette wasn't of much use to me, however as a matter of interest I decided to try to keep a mental note of the gears I was using during today's ride (I usually just pedal and click away without taking too much notice of what's happening down below, so to speak). I've got a 50, 34 crankset and 11-34 cassette. On a significant number of occasions I looked down and I noticed that I was in the 34 - 11 gear, (i.e small - small). This is due to the cycling terrain being fairly hilly with frequent short sharp hills, so rather than jump up onto the big ring on the front I'll keep the momentum up by using the full range of the rear cassette. So maybe that 11t ring is of more use than I thought.

If you’re spinning that 11 tooth sprocket at sufficient rpm, whilst having a power output that isn’t making that inefficient, it’s working well for you. I really doubt you are, and you’d actually be better off with a larger small sprocket, which you can make work properly.

 

[Stompier]

It’s not “muddled up thinking” it’s fairly simple. Just about every leisure cyclist, can’t use the 11 tooth sprocket, efficiently enough for it to be any practical use to them. It’s a waste of space, for most ‘normal cyclists’.

What about you - you're a 'leisure' cyclist - can you use it efficiently?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

It’s not “muddled up thinking” it’s fairly simple. Just about every leisure cyclist, can’t use the 11 tooth sprocket, efficiently enough for it to be any practical use to them. It’s a waste of space, for most ‘normal cyclists’.

Why can’t they use it? I use mine most rides.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Why would a leisure cyclist care about efficiency?

 

[Venod]

On a significant number of occasions I looked down and I noticed that I was in the 34 - 11 gear, (i.e small - small)

It works but not good for the chain, when you could use a gear on the big ring with a better chain line.

 

[Racing roadkill]

Why would a leisure cyclist care about efficiency?

Depends whether they care about actually enjoying riding. The more efficient it is, the ‘easier’ it will feel, the less tired they’ll get. It’s all relative.

 

[Racing roadkill]

It works but not good for the chain, when you could use a gear on the big ring with a better chain line.

Whereas that’s true, that’s more a function of relative position on the hub, rather than the number of teeth.

 

[Racing roadkill]

Why can’t they use it? I use mine most rides.

Unless you’re Peter Sagan / Cav et.al. ( you’re not) you’re wasting a whole lot of energy whilst using it / making life unnecessarily hard.