Phrases I`m getting increasingly sick of hearing

[DCBassman]

So, how DO you say, "Ciabatta"?
Asking for a friend...

 

[Mugshot]

So, how DO you say, "Ciabatta"?
Asking for a friend...

I think its pronounced "ciabatta"

HTH 🙂

 

[glasgowcyclist]

So, how DO you say, "Ciabatta"?
Asking for a friend...

It's chabatta rather than chee-abatta.

 

[MontyVeda]

Why do the Italians pronounce a 'c' as 'ch' but 'ch' as 'k'... eg. ciabatta and chianti


Info-graphic is one of those modern phrases that really twists my gonads

 

[DCBassman]

It's chabatta rather than chee-abatta.

Aye thang-yew!
(Also very irritating, sorry...)

 

[DCBassman]

Why do the Italians pronounce a 'c' as 'ch' but 'ch' as 'k'... eg. ciabatta and chianti

Erm...because?

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Why do the Italians pronounce a 'c' as 'ch' but 'ch' as 'k'... eg. ciabatta and chianti

In Italian the letter c is always a hard k sound unless it is followed by an i or an e, in which case it changes to the ch as in church sound. Same applies with the letter g. It's hard as in goal unless followed by an i or an e when it becomes like the j in journey.


Edit to add: Italian is a largely phonetic language, what you see is what you say. Spare a thought for learners of English who have to grapple with the illogical pronunciation of things like 'ough'. Why don't the words through, though, bough, cough, plough, rough, dough, trough and hiccough all sound the same?

 

[Gasman]

Most Italian words put stress on the second last syllable so "cha-BAT-ah"

 

[Mugshot]

Aye thang-yew!
(Also very irritating, sorry...)

This is the most important bit

 

[CanucksTraveller]

 

[Drago]

"...after 47 years, Britain is leaving the EU..."

I'm getting fed up and increasingly annoyed hearing about it. Firstly, I couldn't care less either way, so shut up and report some interesting news. Secondly, the EU was formed in 1993, and while my maths isn't the best I am pretty sure that was only 27 years ago.

So stop annoying me, and report some real news about how some chick from Love Island used to work at a topless car wash, or about Elton John's new wig. Y'know, important, interesting stuff.

Just when I thought it was safe to turn on the tv, I find that this phenomenon has reached epidemic proportions today. Now I know why Elvis used to keep a .44 at home to shoot the tv with.

 

[rich p]

In Italian the letter c is always a hard k sound unless it is followed by an i or an e, in which case it changes to the ch as in church sound. Same applies with the letter g. It's hard as in goal unless followed by an i or an e when it becomes like the j in journey.


Edit to add: Italian is a largely phonetic language, what you see is what you say. Spare a thought for learners of English who have to grapple with the illogical pronunciation of things like 'ough'. Why don't the words through, though, bough, cough, plough, rough, dough, trough and hiccough all sound the same?

Or, as I was taught,
I's and E's soften C's and G's...

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Why do the Italians pronounce a 'c' as 'ch' but 'ch' as 'k'... eg. ciabatta and chianti


Info-graphic is one of those modern phrases that really twists my gonads

English spelling and proncunciation rules are even worse! Compared to English, French and Italian seem positively Vulcan in their logicality by comparison.

 

[Maverick Goose]

'A new dawn' or 'a new era'😫🤬💩...also 'B*$%^*'.

 

[Edwardoka]

Why do the Italians pronounce a 'c' as 'ch' but 'ch' as 'k'... eg. ciabatta and chianti

Long read because I'm hungover, it's confusing as hell and I have nothing better to do

Italian is closely related to Vulgar Latin and keeps many of its conventions although drops some of its letters. If anything it's the Germanic languages (including English) that have everything backwards.

In Classical Latin, 'c', 'k', and 'q' were all used interchangeably depending upon where they appeared in a word to describe the sounds we recognise today as 'k' and the hard 'g'.

The Romans pronounced "c" as a hard /k/. Caesar = K-eye-zar, Cicero = Kickero.

Written Latin didn't have any native way of representing the syllable /tʃ/ (the sound we recognise in English as "ch"), hell, I can't find any sources that suggest that this sound even existed in the language.

'ch' in Italian as a hard k came from directly transliterating from Classical Greek - the Greek letter 'chi', (pronounced in Classical Greek as 'ki', written with the character 'Χ' in the Greek alphabet (because linguistics isn't confusing enough already)).

As far as I can tell the Italian 'ci' came about for two reasons:
- Greek itself evolved - the pronunciation of their letter 'chi' changed to the modern one with the /tʃ/ sound, so transliteration of modernised Greek into Latin will have reflected this change, particularly with the spread of Christianity and the existence of Church Latin
- the fall of the Western Roman Empire caused Latin to fragment into separate languages.

Why both 'ch' and 'ci' in Italian survived the change to the Greek pronunciation with different outcomes, I have no idea. It's not like the letter k doesn't exist in the Latin alphabet.