Red light jumping, nicked?

[Jezston]

In view of the shameful lack of consideration given to the well being of cyclists in this country, my advice would be: do whatever you need to do in order to stay safe and healthy on the roads, obedience to traffic laws should be a secondary consideration.

Traffic laws are there to CREATE safety. Flouting them diminishes safety.

I've never understood the argument that sometimes you have to jump red lights to stay safe, like somehow people believe that if they slow down and stop appropriately some oik behind is going to run into the back of them. If you really believe that people are going to do that to you so often, how do you sum up the courage to even take to the road at all?

If you can safely get through a heavily polluted area without stopping for the traffic signals that's your prerogative, similarly, if you feel the need to take to the pavement to avoid a particularly shitty section, that's also your prerogative.

Are you saying that POLLUTION is a reason for jumping red lights? You do realise that us, as cyclists, breath in much less pollution than car drivers and passengers with their lower position and fans and AC sucking it all in off the ground, right?

What possible justification is there for taking to the pavement? If you find a particular stretch of road too hairy, change your route, write to your MP and council, choose an alternative method of transport or man up.

If and when the authorities actually *do something* to sort out the air pollution and reduce the threats caused by lorries/speeding cars, obedience to the traffic laws might become a higher priority.

Again, how is the issue of pollution a justification for RLJing? And do you really think if there were greater policing of antisocial driving that would stop selfish cyclists from jumping the lights?

The only justification for RLJing is when traffic lights are faulty. Anything else is just a poor justification for selfishness. If you want to get somewhere faster, get fitter - or just leave earlier.

 

[swampyseifer]

I dont even ride a bike...yet...but I've done my fair share or car driving and I've also been a pedestrian in London for 7 years while I commute.

Personally, as has been said above there is no valid reason to RLJ other than to get ahead of where you should be. Admitedly I know that motor vehicles do it as well, but that is hardly a reason to do it yourself (eye for an eye leaving the world blind and all that!)

I also understand that sometimes it can be a safety thing for the bike...I've seen plenty of cyclists stop at red lights and then when the light changes, all the traffic flies past them.

But if *everyone* actually stuck to the laws of the road instead of deciding themselves when they should and shoulnt apply then we would all be much safer!

Just a little story about a cyclist, one of few who give the rest of cyclists a bad name. I was waiting at a crossing on City Road in London. The lights went to red and me and some others started to walk out, a bike came out of nowhere ringing his bell and shouting to "get out the way", an elderly gentlemen...who I assume didnt hear him...carried on walking and they collided. The biker picked himself up, shouted at the man to look where he was going. Spat on him and rode away!

 

[Dan_h]

Just a little story about a cyclist, one of few who give the rest of cyclists a bad name. I was waiting at a crossing on City Road in London. The lights went to red and me and some others started to walk out, a bike came out of nowhere ringing his bell and shouting to "get out the way", an elderly gentlemen...who I assume didnt hear him...carried on walking and they collided. The biker picked himself up, shouted at the man to look where he was going. Spat on him and rode away!

Unfortunately the act of riding a bike does not make someone a nice, reasonable and pleasant person.

 

[Rob3rt]

The only justification for RLJing is when traffic lights are faulty. Anything else is just a poor justification for selfishness. If you want to get somewhere faster, get fitter - or just leave earlier.

That might get you there earlier, but it wont get you there faster :P

 

[Hip Priest]

Just a little story about a cyclist, one of few who give the rest of cyclists a bad name. I was waiting at a crossing on City Road in London. The lights went to red and me and some others started to walk out, a bike came out of nowhere ringing his bell and shouting to "get out the way", an elderly gentlemen...who I assume didnt hear him...carried on walking and they collided. The biker picked himself up, shouted at the man to look where he was going. Spat on him and rode away!

Everyone's got one of these ludicrous stories about a cyclist. I once saw a cyclist beat a disabled kitten to death with the severed arm of an orphan just because it was sat in the ASL.

 

[Dan_h]

Everyone's got one of these ludicrous stories about a cyclist. I once saw a cyclist beat a disabled kitten to death with the severed arm of an orphan just because it was sat in the ASL.

Did the cyclist sever the arm of the orphan or was it just lying in the street?

 

[benb]

Unfortunately the act of riding a bike does not make someone a nice, reasonable and pleasant person.

But it helps.

 

[Rob3rt]

I dont even ride a bike...

So........... what exactly is your motivation for seeking/finding, reading and subsequently signing up and posting on a cycling forum?

 

[Mad at urage]

Traffic laws are there to CREATE safety. Flouting them diminishes safety.

I've never understood the argument that sometimes you have to jump red lights to stay safe, like somehow people believe that if they slow down and stop appropriately some oik behind is going to run into the back of them. If you really believe that people are going to do that to you so often, how do you sum up the courage to even take to the road at all?

.....

What possible justification is there for taking to the pavement? If you find a particular stretch of road too hairy, change your route, write to your MP and council, choose an alternative method of transport or man up.

....
The only justification for RLJing is when traffic lights are faulty. Anything else is just a poor justification for selfishness. If you want to get somewhere faster, get fitter - or just leave earlier.

Just these points: Flouting laws can be safer than obeying them.

I was riding a motorcycle in London (late '80s), approached a T.light which turned red. I had time to (a) decide not to jump the light, (b) to brake smoothly to a standstill, (c) to select neutral and change feet back so that I had foot as well as hand brake engaged. A bus drve into the back of me, sending me and the m'bike flying across the pedestrian crossing and just missing a pedestrian (who walked on as if nothing had happened). I picked myself and 'bike up, put it on the stand and walked over to the bus driver, asking him if he hadn't seen me, his reply was that he hadn't expected me to stop! Jumping the lights would have been safer all round.

When cycling in London in the 70s and 80s, I have on several occasions been squeezed onto the pavement by cars. It was standard practice to watch out for dropped kerbs as 'escape routes' - i.e. riding on to the pavement, as it was safer than allowing a side-swipe (this was the same era that I realised that riding further out in the road gave me more room to escape such a side-swipe). 'Man up' isn't an option when someone deliberately swings their car into you (although a good speed and sharp-ended flat bars can ruin their month).

In the same environment, jumping the line and sitting in front of the cars was safer than trying to queue 'in the lane' where drivers frequently pushed the cyclist to the side. In the places I ride now, this is not necessary (and I understand London has greatly improved with the increased number of cyclists, I look forward to the opportunity to ride there again some day). However I would never condemn a cyclist for riding in ways (s)he believes improves safety, until I'd ridden his/her route in company.

 

[fimm]

So........... what exactly is your motivation for seeking/finding, reading and subsequently signing up and posting on a cycling forum?

To start a thread in the Beginners' section asking for advice about buying a bike, perhaps?

 

[Rory Davies]

I agree RLJs are not all equal and so as an experienced urban cyclist my most regular RLJ situation I find is pre-emptive RL jumping i.e. having stopped my bike on the red light I see the amber on the other set of lights and then move off whilst light is red about to go amber hence stealing a march on the tonnes of carbon chewing metal behind me. Get to my cruising speed before they catch up and I feel safer.

 

[Rob3rt]

To start a thread in the Beginners' section asking for advice about buying a bike, perhaps?

Touche!

 

[Dan B]

I agree RLJs are not all equal and so as an experienced urban cyclist my most regular RLJ situation I find is pre-emptive RL jumping i.e. having stopped my bike on the red light I see the amber on the other set of lights and then move off whilst light is red about to go amber hence stealing a march on the tonnes of carbon chewing metal behind me. Get to my cruising speed before they catch up and I feel safer.

Provided that you know the order of light phasing, of course. It can be embarrassing (at minimum) if you don't, and end up sprinting into the middle of the pedestrian green phase.

 

[swampyseifer]

Touche!

Quite!

I do indeen have a thread on here about buying a bike and learning to ride...

I just thought I would poke my nose in here, because as a commuting pedestrian in London for quite a few years now, I thought I would have something useful to say about my experience with bikes RLJing...

Of course, I'm sure me...and all the people on here saying that RLJing is wrong...have never crossed a road where there isnt a crossing and I'm sure when we are at a crossing we've never crossed without waiting for the lights to change, even when the road appears clear?

 

[benb]

Of course, I'm sure me...and all the people on here saying that RLJing is wrong...have never crossed a road where there isnt a crossing and I'm sure when we are at a crossing we've never crossed without waiting for the lights to change, even when the road appears clear?

Neither of those are illegal (good!), at least in the UK.