Red light jumping, nicked?

[Dan B]

The problem I have with group 2 is them deciding what's safe and what isn't. Just because they don't notice anyone around doesn't mean there isn't.

This is something that needs to be solved by rider education or training, not something you can rely on traffic lights to prevent. After all, the same risks and the same need for observation apply at every junction that's not light-controlled ("give way" signs, roundabouts, etc), every lane change, and when pulling out on to the road at the start of every journey - for that matter, even at light-controlled junctions when you want to turn right across oncoming traffic which also has a green. If you can't negotiate an uncontrolled T-junction safely, obeying traffic light signals is not going to be sufficient to keep you safe on the road because not every junction has lights.

(Please note that this is not an argument for RLJ, it is an objection to a specific argument against. There are other reasons not to jump red lights, I just don't think this is a particularly good one)

 

[gambatte]

The funny thing is, when traffic lights are go out of order, people seem to rub along just fine. They take more care, go slower and use their eyes more.

But thats when they're out of order. I reckon it'd be a different kettle of fish if they were working but ignored?

 

[John the Monkey]

But thats when they're out of order. I reckon it'd be a different kettle of fish if they were working but ignored?

Yup.

It's the unfamiliarity that does it. Remove them, and I reckon you'd see largest flow of motor traffic bullying everything else out of the way. (In my opinion, of course, I've no peer reviewed studies to back that up).

 

[Raa]

Raa said: ↑

In view of the shameful lack of consideration given to the well being of cyclists in this country, my advice would be: do whatever you need to do in order to stay safe and healthy on the roads, obedience to traffic laws should be a secondary consideration.​

Traffic laws are there to CREATE safety. Flouting them diminishes safety.

I've never understood the argument that sometimes you have to jump red lights to stay safe, like somehow people believe that if they slow down and stop appropriately some oik behind is going to run into the back of them. If you really believe that people are going to do that to you so often, how do you sum up the courage to even take to the road at all?

Well, if you believe that obeying all the traffic laws improves your safety, who am I to argue. Myself, I feel much safer getting through a junction or across a roundabout before the idiot drivers start racing each other to the next set of lights, whether its illegal?.... sorry to offend you, but that's just not my number one concern, is it really so difficult to understand?

If you can safely get through a heavily polluted area without stopping for the traffic signals that's your prerogative, similarly, if you feel the need to take to the pavement to avoid a particularly shitty section, that's also your prerogative.​

Are you saying that POLLUTION is a reason for jumping red lights?

Yes that is exactly what I am saying, in fact it is the main reason I prefer not to stop.

You do realise that us, as cyclists, breath in much less pollution than car drivers and passengers with their lower position and fans and AC sucking it all in off the ground, right?

Not quite sure what point you are making here. You seem to be saying that because car drivers (MAY) breath in more pollution than cyclists, there is no cause for concern?

Actually most modern cars are equipped with activated carbon cabin filters to protect drivers from pollution...HOW UNFAIR IS THAT???? Last time I looked none of my bicycles had exhaust pipes.....do I really need to spell out the connection??

What possible justification is there for taking to the pavement? If you find a particular stretch of road too hairy, change your route, write to your MP and council, choose an alternative method of transport or man up.

"man up" ????? funny guy! tell this to an old lady or schoolgirl who feels too intimidated to share a particular stretch of road with thundering trucks and speeding cars; in Holland, Germany and Denmark cyclists are NEVER, EVER placed in such situations. Here in Britain however it is just the way things are, I suggest you "man up" and get with the program.

"Change your route" again, wise up! this is Britain often alternatives will not exist.

"write to your MP and council, " You have much more faith than I "

"choose an alternative method of transport" I have no way to respond to this without being very rude, so I won't :-)

If and when the authorities actually *do something* to sort out the air pollution and reduce the threats caused by lorries/speeding cars, obedience to the traffic laws might become a higher priority.​

Again, how is the issue of pollution a justification for RLJing?

1, Bicycles don't have exhaust pipes
2, Light controlled junctions are zones of maximum pollution due to the cockesque tendency of drivers to race between the lights.
3, Government has done virtually nothing lately to tackle pollution from vehicles; the number of diesels on the road has really f**ked the air quality.

And do you really think if there were greater policing of antisocial driving that would stop selfish cyclists from jumping the lights?

No, they would need to sort out the pollution and congestion too!

 

[Tynan]