Red Lights

[wafflycat]

Nice climb down wallycat,sorry wafflycat,but technically the light is still on red but knowing they arent gonna change for me i use common sense and proceed with caution.I will again await a response from the council and also get an opinion from the traffic bobby i see most everyday on my way in.

No climbdown at all. There is a world of difference bwetween a working red light and one that is not working. Both legally and practically.

 

[BentMikey]

Nice climb down wallycat,sorry wafflycat,but technically the light is still on red but knowing they arent gonna change for me i use common sense and proceed with caution.I will again await a response from the council and also get an opinion from the traffic bobby i see most everyday on my way in.

That's not a climbdown - that's nothing more than legally going through a red light. What's more, that's been wafflycat's stance for a number of years now. I'm guessing she didn't notice in your OP where you mention non-working traffic lights.

 

[Downward]

Time spent stopping people doing silly things which could result in them killing themselves is an important part of police work.

They would be better off then teaching the green cross code.

 

[gaz]

I counted the lights i went through on the way to work, and counted just over 100. it's not so hard to not jump them.

 

[simongrant]

That's not a climbdown - that's nothing more than legally going through a red light. What's more, that's been wafflycat's stance for a number of years now. I'm guessing she didn't notice in your OP where you mention non-working traffic lights.

Which is why i said at least twice to read my post properly and still got the"not necessary ever stance"

 

[007fair]

Not sure if there is a need but I thought I would update here as I opened the thread.
I didn't realise there was such ongoing real anamosity between cyclists and normal motorists.

Honest opinion before thread ..
I thought the guy that gestured to me was just a plonker (There are many out there!).
I thought that motorists who complain about cyclists are just the ones who think more of their cars than they should. IE They want to be king of the road with their 19 " alloys and twin turbos etc ...
Cyclists evoke anger because they are outside the motorists road rules, physically (like fitting through small spaces if traffic jams etc) and phsycologically (cycling is environmentally clean and good for your health - an unpleasant reminder of what the motorist is not! - and they feel like they are being silently preached to by each bike)
Their ego is dented and hence the anger!
Akin to some young guys hanging around a street corner feeling they have to deride someone out running.


...but it seems that there is a bigger picture in this case (see OP).
Maybe it was my eyes that needed to be opened a bit.

I fully take the point (made kindly and otherwise) that cyclists should not wind up motorists if there is no need. Respectful road behaviour promotes a general sense goodwill to all other road users including peds which is obviously worthwhile (especially considering we are the vulnerable ones!)
I was not a serial RLJ er but I will not now do it now unless the situation is unusual (lights not working etc as discussed).
There you go - you converted me


Note - I am a motorist as well as a cyclist. I generally never get annoyed if a cyclist pushes his bike through the ped crossing or even RLJ's unless its danergous. Should I now get angry with guys that do this!?

 

[BentMikey]

In fairness to you, I come from exactly the same view, 007fair. I also used to RLJ, and ppl on a forum like this one converted me away from it too.

Must confess to getting particularly frustrated by hitting what seemed like almost every red light out of the 120 on my commute yesterday.

 

[jonny jeez]

In fairness to you, I come from exactly the same view, 007fair. I also used to RLJ, and ppl on a forum like this one converted me away from it too.

Must confess to getting particularly frustrated by hitting what seemed like almost every red light out of the 120 on my commute yesterday.

Ditto to that mikey, I have around 80+ and getting them all on the way in can put 20 minutes on my journey!!

However (and luckily) I generally only ever see the "main" crossroad lights at red and so this generally dosent hold me up too much (maybe a minute or so in the long run)

 

[u9ge]

The only time there is ever the excuse is in the tree falling in the forest rule, if no one, I mean no one 5am in the morning style could see you, you might choose to do this. This means motorists, pedestrians, cyclists.

If we can't put our own house in order, what hope is there ever for us.

 

[Arch]

What of the policy of getting off, walking on the pavement, and then remounting at the other side of the junction?

As far as I can remember, the Highway Code promotes this as a safe way to negotiate busy roundabouts/ junctions, but I believe it does get on some motorists nerves, as much as red light jumpers.

The difference being, it's not illegal. So it may get on their nerves, but that's their problem for being frustrated/stressed/stupid.

I've been using this tactic for a week or so to bypass a bit of closed road in York. I hop off, walk past the big gas works hole, and back on.

If I rode up onto the pavement, that would be wrong, but walking, I'm just a pedestrian like any other.... And TBH, I would follow the diversion, if it didn't take me up a cobbled hill.

 

[Dan B]

The difference being, it's not illegal

Probably not illegal.

In his judgment in the Court of Appeal in Crank v Brooks, Waller LJ stated:

"In my judgment a person who is walking across a pedestrian crossing pushing a bicycle, having started on the pavement on one side on her feet and not on the bicycle, and going across pushing the bicycle with both feet on the ground so to speak is clearly a 'foot passenger'. If for example she had been using it as a scooter by having one foot on the pedal and pushing herself along, she would not have been a 'foot passenger'. But the fact that she had the bicycle in her hand and was walking does not create any difference from a case where she is walking without a bicycle in her hand."

Now I don't know all the facts of that case and haven't been able
to find the rest of the judgment on the 'net, but I would not be
surprised if "having started on the pavement on one side on her
feet and not on the bicycle" turned out to be a key part of it:
obviously someone walking along from A to B and pushing a bicycle
is engaged in a quite different form of travel from someone who
is cycling the same route and who only dismounts for the express
purpose of avoiding a restriction of some kind which is intended
to stop cyclists.

 

[Dan B]

Note - I am a motorist as well as a cyclist. I generally never get annoyed if a cyclist pushes his bike through the ped crossing or even RLJ's unless its danergous. Should I now get angry with guys that do this!?

No, why would that help anyone? Live and let live

 

[Bman]

There are very few sets of lights in my town, probably only about 5 or 6. I only occasionally use one of these sets. It is a set that allows traffic to flow (one way at a time) over a narrow single laned bridge.

I posted about the last time I was patiently waiting at the lights, with my bike directly over the sensor. The lights only changed when I gave up the wait, dismounted and the car behind me edged forward over the sensor.

I like the idea that I can in future treat these lights as "broken" but I wouldnt want to look like I am RLJ'ing to the average motorist. Also I wouldnt trust the oncoming traffic to drive safely enough to see me coming (when they dont expect any traffic to be coming towards me).

I would suggest trying to use your D-lock to activate the sensor. especially if you have aluminium rims/frame

 

[purplepolly]

The lights only changed when I gave up the wait, dismounted and the car behind me edged forward over the sensor.

I like the idea that I can in future treat these lights as "broken" but I wouldnt want to look like I am RLJ'ing to the average motorist. Also I wouldnt trust the oncoming traffic to drive safely enough to see me coming (when they dont expect any traffic to be coming towards me).

Probably best done only after reporting the lights to the council and when there's no traffic about, that way it's on record that the lights are faulty.

Mind you , sometimes there's no choice but to go through even if there is traffic. I got caught the other week turning right off an A road. Normally there's a right turn sequence in the lights but this time I was on my own and my bike didn't trigger the lights so I was stuck in the middle of the junction in between 4 lanes of speeding traffic. The second time the oncoming traffic stopped I took my chances and cut across the traffic about to turn out of the side road.

 

[stowie]

It is telling that all us cyclists are expected to defend the actions of some, and that we actually feel the need to do it. I wonder if the average motorists feels the need to justify drivers against people speeding - which is just as illegal as RLJ and, IMO, much more prevalent amongst drivers than jumping lights is amongst cyclists.

As mentioned I rarely jump lights - I will moved forward from the stop line if I think it will get me ahead of a large vehicle when the lights change, but I don't want to risk the chance that I will get the light phasing wrong and be in serious trouble. It just isn't worth it.

I do wish that councils would look seriously at making lights cycle friendly. Many junctions could have a facility for cyclists easily implemented with some cycle lights and dedicated bypass lane.