Result at the tip this morning

[stalagmike]

Use oxalic acid on the rust. Leaves dull white metal behind but doesn't harm the paint.

Thanks. I'll have a look at some of that. Just came across this in my research. Any experience with this?

https://www.frost.co.uk/eastwood-patina-preserver-aerosol-14995-invisible-rust-protection-coat.html

 

[stalagmike]

Got the seat post bolt out. It was quite easy in the end. Just undid it using two Allen keys, took the knurled bit off, re-connect the two halves, then used a punch to hammer the end that had pushed through back out the side it had come from. Then I could undo it again and remove the bolt. Full extent of the damage from whatever happened before can be seen now.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Got the seat post bolt out. It was quite easy in the end. Just undid it using two Allen keys, took the knurled bit off, re-connect the two halves, then used a punch to hammer the end that had pushed through back out the side it had come from. Then I could undo it again and remove the bolt. Full extent of the damage from whatever happened before can be seen now.

Looks quite nasty, but on the bright side at least the bike came FOC! Definitely looks like you'll need to put a couple of small diameter but heavy gauge flat washers either side of the boss and refit using a plain nut & bolt. Don't think you will get away with an Allen headed bolt this time. TBH, given the fact it's a bit of a mess, my inclination would to be to engineer a belt & braces bodge, so I would drill the seat post front-rear and put a fairly small diameter bolt, say 6mm, right through the seat tube and the seat post, so that the weight is mainly carried on the bolt and the clamp then doesn't need to be really tight - just tight enough to stop the post feeling wobbly.

The Eastwood spray stuff looks to be some sort of matt clearcoat lacquer, mainly aimed at the "rat rod" old car market. For what it is, it's rather pricey IMHO, which is generally the case with resto stuff sourced from Frosts.. There are similar products available on the 'Bay for about a third of that price! Given the frame damage I wouldn't get too carried away with cosmetics. I'd accept that it's basically a high quality bike but is not ever going to be a minter - hence the seat tube drilling bodge, which doesn't have to look too terrible if implemented sensibly.

 

[stalagmike]

Looks quite nasty, but on the bright side at least the bike came FOC! Definitely looks like you'll need to put a couple of small diameter but heavy gauge flat washers either side of the boss and refit using a plain nut & bolt. Don't think you will get away with an Allen headed bolt this time. TBH, given the fact it's a bit of a mess, my inclination would to be to engineer a belt & braces bodge, so I would drill the seat post front-rear and put a fairly small diameter bolt, say 6mm, right through the seat tube and the seat post, so that the weight is mainly carried on the bolt and the clamp then doesn't need to be really tight - just tight enough to stop the post feeling wobbly.

The Eastwood spray stuff looks to be some sort of matt clearcoat lacquer, mainly aimed at the "rat rod" old car market. For what it is, it's rather pricey IMHO, which is generally the case with resto stuff sourced from Frosts.. There are similar products available on the 'Bay for about a third of that price! Given the frame damage I wouldn't get too carried away with cosmetics. I'd accept that it's basically a high quality bike but is not ever going to be a minter - hence the seat tube drilling bodge, which doesn't have to look too terrible if implemented sensibly.

This is great advice thanks. I feared that it might need something like that. The question is now, what diameter of seatpin to go for? I need to source a replacement from somewhere and so need to get the correct size for the lower part of the tube. I'm thinking I should knock it back into shape a bit, put the new seat bolt assembly in place and then get my LBS to measure it for me? ( I don't have the gear to do it myself)

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

If you're going to go down the road of drilling the seat tube to transfer the rider weight loading away from the clamp, seat post size might not be that critical, since you won't need a close-fitting clamping surface between the tube and post. I'd try using a standard dia steel post, and if too loose maybe try shimming it with a bit of very thin aluminium slipped down between the post and the tube, such as the side of a used soft drink can cut up with a pair of strong scissors or tinsnips.

 

[classic33]

I'd not drill the seat tube. It's thin material, the lug is thicker to provide the support to the frame.

 

[raleighnut]

^^^^^^^+1,

once you've got a nut and bolt in the clamp you won't need anything else anyway.

 

[classic33]

This is great advice thanks. I feared that it might need something like that. The question is now, what diameter of seatpin to go for? I need to source a replacement from somewhere and so need to get the correct size for the lower part of the tube. I'm thinking I should knock it back into shape a bit, put the new seat bolt assembly in place and then get my LBS to measure it for me? ( I don't have the gear to do it myself)

Guessing 26·4mm for the seat post.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

What would concern me is whether there is enough meat left where the clamp bolt passes through the lug to withstand being done up that tight. Ripping a bigger hole through it with the Allen bolt won't have helped matters one little bit. As the top part of the seat tube looks distorted out of shape it might need to be done up pretty tight and then a bit of steel bar used as a drift to try and knock it back into shape with a seat post inserted in order to support the tube shape internally. Drilling & bolting isn't an ideal solution, but I would rather do that than break off one of the "ears" that the clamp bolt passes through, leaving it impossible to tighten.

 

[classic33]

What would concern me is whether there is enough meat left where the clamp bolt passes through the lug to withstand being done up that tight. Ripping a bigger hole through it with the Allen bolt won't have helped matters one little bit. As the top part of the seat tube looks distorted out of shape it might need to be done up pretty tight and then a bit of steel bar used as a drift to try and knock it back into shape with a seat post inserted in order to support the tube shape internally. Drilling & bolting isn't an ideal solution, but I would rather do that than break off one of the "ears" that the clamp bolt passes through, leaving it impossible to tighten.

Should either break off, or show signs of breaking off, with a bolt through the holes, there's always the seatpost clamp left that can be used.

 

[si_c]

Don't drill through the seat tube, that's a terrible way to treat the bike! It might be worth considering getting the seat binder replaced by a frame builder. Judging from a quick look online, you're looking at around £50 for the brazing work, plus the cost of fixing the paintwork. If you are wanting to do the job properly, that's the way to go.

A larger bolt and a couple of washers will work, but it'll look like a bodge, because it is.

 

[raleighnut]

Don't drill through the seat tube, that's a terrible way to treat the bike! It might be worth considering getting the seat binder replaced by a frame builder. Judging from a quick look online, you're looking at around £50 for the brazing work, plus the cost of fixing the paintwork. If you are wanting to do the job properly, that's the way to go.

A larger bolt and a couple of washers will work, but it'll look like a bodge, because it is.

I'd use something like this,

 

[Illaveago]

It looks as though it has had a right ear piercing !
Are you going to try to get it back into shape ?

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

Don't drill through the seat tube, that's a terrible way to treat the bike! It might be worth considering getting the seat binder replaced by a frame builder. Judging from a quick look online, you're looking at around £50 for the brazing work, plus the cost of fixing the paintwork. If you are wanting to do the job properly, that's the way to go. A larger bolt and a couple of washers will work, but it'll look like a bodge, because it is.

You're correct, drilling the frame is a drastic measure, and a nut & bolt with heavy washers on the pinch clamp won't be too pretty either. However, you have to put this in context; the bike was FOC and, had it not been salvaged, it would have been melted down as scrap. Even if you bodge it up, at least it survives to be enjoyed and used some more. If you start brazing, you destroy the paint, which doesn't actually look that bad overall. So, by the time you've done a "proper" repair, and repainted the heat damage, the cost of your skip bike might approach that of buying one in good condition. There is nothing inherently wrong in owning and riding a quality bike in a cosmetically poor state or with a bodge repair or two. It will still be nice and light and it will still ride exactly the same as a perfect example would.

 

[stalagmike]

I'd quite like to keep the original paint work if I can. I could always go for the bodge now with the option of the brazing/new paint job later if I am feeling flush. I'm not wedded to a full resto job, just a tidy looking retro ride really.