Ridden into by another cyclist

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BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
gazzaputt said:
As I ride both V-brakes and especially disc are far more powerful than twins on road bikes.

I suspect you might be confusing lever finger pressure with stopping power.
It's true, disc brakes usually have excellent modulation and need very little force to get to max braking power, but rim brakes are just as powerful.

Stopping power is limited by either locking the wheel up or doing an endo, with the limit being either road traction or centre of gravity position. If you can't do either of these with a particular bike, then there is something wrong with those brakes. (e.g. old school bikes with steel rims in the wet).
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
reaction times and anticipation anyone

cars shunt each other all the time, always because of insufficient braking distance or inattention

very very rarely bad brakes

but I bet car drivers argue all day about whose car can stop quickest
 

domtyler

Über Member
Jacomus-rides-Gen said:
Locking your rear wheel actually decreases your braking power as well as your control.

A bike under full braking power will be using near zero rear brake, as the rear wheel should barely be touching the ground.

Also you cannot just stop pedalling mid stroke, because that is impossible. Also you have to bring to bear much larger, more powerful muscles to stop your pedals turning than you do to pull a brake lever.

I have no doubt that you can stop very quickly DT, as you are a very experienced cyclist, but the rear wheel braking fixie riders go on about is much less efficient than a caliper brake.

I didn't say I actually locked my back wheel, just that I could. I use the back wheel for speed control all the time on the fixie, it is the natural way to do it. I only use the front brake in emergency situations or when you just want full braking power.

I think that what happens in an emergency on the fixie is that you immediately start to brake with your back wheel by applying a slowing force through your legs, then once you have reached the front brake and can apply that you do and thus switch to mainly front braking. This gives an advantage [on a fixie] as you have already slowed significantly by the time you start to to apply the [rim] brakes.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
Tynan is right, I was simply digressing in reply to the MTB comment.

Any cycling instructor should tell you that you ought to be cycling covering the brakes pretty much always to reduce reaction time.
 
BentMikey said:
Tynan is right, I was simply digressing in reply to the MTB comment.

Any cycling instructor should tell you that you ought to be cycling covering the brakes pretty much always to reduce reaction time.

Covering your brakes with however many fingers you normally brake with saves 0.4seconds from your reaction time, which is about 5 meters if you are riding at 33km/h (which is my normal cruising speed).

5 meters is a LONG way to travel without braking in an emergency, and can easily be the difference between a crash and a scare.
 
OP
OP
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cupoftea

New Member
Location
London
As to how quickly you brake, taking out some human factors, it’s the size of the contact patch, the type of material, weight, and surface. I’m discounting the brakes, as it’s more about how they’re used rather than what they are.

In my opinion MTB,s tend to stop quicker because they’re normally heavier and have larger tyres.

Yes if you put 1” slicks on and then grease the rims they wont stop, but generally

I wasn’t going that fast, I was in the worst position, on left moving up the inside of slow moving traffic, just waiting for someone to cut across. This is the Mile End road, two lanes of traffic, with side road’s every 25 yards. I normally stick to the middle but I was approaching a crossing where theirs a bottleneck, and the left offer’s an escape route.

I spotted the truck turning right (hard to miss) plus the old Nissan sports car and I knew he’d pull over without looking so was slowing, already. The Nissan then did what I expected and cut across, I hit the brakes; I didn’t even come to halt, I didn’t need to, when clunk!

I think he either bent a rim or folded his forks. His forks were of the “blade” type and tyres very skinny.

I waited at the next set of lights but he didn’t turn up.
 

BentMikey

Rider of Seolferwulf
Location
South London
You can pretty much take the weight out of the equation, because although heavier weight means greater friction, this is negated by the extra force required to decelerate the greater weight.

Larger tyres, if knobblies, will increase your stopping distance because of the squirm, whilst commuting slicks will stop more quickly on the road. From first order effects, contact patch size is not relevant to your stopping power - look up the formula for friction and show us where area is included. It isn't.

I'll bet it was all about reaction time, with the rider riding too close to you. Nothing to do with stopping ability.
 

HJ

Cycling in Scotland
Location
Auld Reekie
Avoiding collisions is not about how fast you can stop, it is about looking where you are going and anticipating the need to stop, so that you can do so before to hit something...
 

Ludwig

Hopeless romantic
Location
Lissingdown
It is quite obvious that a mtb with 2 inch tyres will stop much better than a road bike. Also they will corner better and riding on a 2 inch cushion of air will give a smoother ride.
 

HJ

Cycling in Scotland
Location
Auld Reekie
BentMikey said:
I'll bet it was all about reaction time, with the rider riding too close to you. Nothing to do with stopping ability.

Reaction time is a red herring, it is looking and thinking ahead that is important, anticipate the hazard and you will have time to do something about it. He was just riding at a speed beyond his ability.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
'stop quicker because they’re normally heavier'

my Physics A level told me that the heavier thing takes more force to stop than the lighter thing

the best thing is anticipation, speed kills and all that, reaction is good and kinda related to anticipation

once you actually have got on the brakes you're slicing up a rather small amount of time and distance that was all up for grabs for free second earlier

it's a bit like the cops in films that boast about never drawing their gun in 30 years of service
 
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