RLJ-ing: A Minority Pastime?

[ComedyPilot]

What's a traffic light?

Wonder when we'll get them in rural Yorkshire?

 

[ianrauk]

You might have an impression of what is happening but its just that, an impression compared with actual measurements of what is happening. There are lots of places now where, if you count them bikes outnumber cars but the impression if you don't count them is that cars outnumber bikes.

It's not an impression. It's what I see on a daily basis.
That report is flawed anyway. It's examples are 5 of the most busiest junctions for car traffic in London. Next time they should report from minor junctions and ped crossing to see how many RLJ.

 

[martint235]

I voted 50/50 but that's for my commute now. When commuting down the Old Kent Road I would say it was way over 60%. 60% means that only 2 in every 5 cyclists would stop for the red light, I was frequently on my own watching other cyclists pass me by.

 

[BentMikey]

Impression, anecdata and statistics. LMAO!

 

[RedRider]

No I've never measured it either. But as I said to another poster. 7 years of commuter cycling in London says a lot more then some old report of someone standing on a corner counting a few cyclists for a couple of hours.

And having a look at the report, the junctions where the transgressors were counted are some of the most busiest junctions in London where only the more foolhardy would RLJ. Next time they should do a better spread of minor junctions. Then watch as the stat's jump.

I agree about the junctions they chose, they're the sort it would be relatively foolhardy/difficult to jump. My own perception from 13 years cycle commuting these roads is it's less prevalent than it was and is probably somewhere between 30 and 40 per cent. Perception isn't fact tho.

 

[Red Light]

The TfL link is very interesting and all, but offers no empirical data to support any figure for accidents caused as a consequence of RLJing.

It's easy to figure how many jump red lights by asking riders, or even standing there and counting ( or reviewing CCTV and counting, or whatever) but the lead investigating agency for serious road incidents involving injury or death, or the dibble, simply do not record and report RLJing as an accident cause, simply because they're not required to do so. Therefore, Twots fail London Simply do not have a reliable source of data re RLJ fatalities. No one does.

I thought

In London between 2001-05 (the most recent data we have), there were 3
cyclists, 7 pedestrians and 7 motor vehicle occupants killed in collisions
where a motorist jumped a red light.
• Two cyclists were killed by red light jumping (i.e. fewer than the number of
cyclists killed by red-light-jumping drivers), while 7 motorcyclists got
themselves killed the same way.​

​

was empirical data collected by TfL. What do you suggest happened? They made the numbers up?

And I suppose they also made up the report about how many cyclists RLJ'd in London too rather than doing what you suggest and standing there counting them as they claim in their report.

 

[Beebo]

You can prove anything with lies and statistics.

Take this made up example. 4 riders cycle through 25 sets of lights. They all jump 4 lights on their journey.

So 100% of the riders are rlj'ers, but they only jumped 16% of the lights.

 

[Davidsw8]

I voted 50/50 but that's for my commute now. When commuting down the Old Kent Road I would say it was way over 60%. 60% means that only 2 in every 5 cyclists would stop for the red light, I was frequently on my own watching other cyclists pass me by.

The Old Kent Road is kind of my neighbourhood, I wouldn't feel comfortable cycling down it though. We have not only cyclists RLJ'ing all over the place plus the buses plus the HGV's plus the further south you go, all those people driving and using their mobiles but we have the countless peds dragging their pre-school age children across 4 lanes of heavy traffic. I'm not exaggerating.

 

[Davidsw8]

TfL did a study and came up with a figure of 18% of cyclists RLJ in London. Which is round about the same percentage of drivers that RLJ more than three seconds after the light has gone red. Its also not a particularly dangerous thing to do - the number of cyclist deaths from RLJing are very low compared to the prevalence of RLJing.

I have to say, I don't think it's always about casualties and injuries, I think it's also a perception of safety. As a ped, I would like to feel that when a light is red, I can cross the road and as a cyclist, that I can proceed without someone slamming in to me from the side. without having to fear some nut-job chancing their arm to save themselves a few seconds of time.

 

[martint235]

The Old Kent Road is kind of my neighbourhood, I wouldn't feel comfortable cycling down it though. We have not only cyclists RLJ'ing all over the place plus the buses plus the HGV's plus the further south you go, all those people driving and using their mobiles but we have the countless peds dragging their pre-school age children across 4 lanes of heavy traffic. I'm not exaggerating.

I used to love it. I don't even have anyone to race anymore!!

 

[martint235]

I thought

In London between 2001-05 (the most recent data we have), there were 3​

cyclists, 7 pedestrians and 7 motor vehicle occupants killed in collisions​

where a motorist jumped a red light.​

• Two cyclists were killed by red light jumping (i.e. fewer than the number of​

cyclists killed by red-light-jumping drivers), while 7 motorcyclists got​

themselves killed the same way.​

​

was empirical data collected by TfL. What do you suggest happened? They made the numbers up?

And I suppose they also made up the report about how many cyclists RLJ'd in London too rather than doing what you suggest and standing there counting them as they claim in their report.

I could politely offer that cycling in London in 2012 is a completely different environment to that in 2005. I was commuting in 2005 (started around 1995) and there were hardly any cyclists around at all. Everyone thought we were nuts to cycle in London.

 

[Red Light]

I could politely offer that cycling in London in 2012 is a completely different environment to that in 2005. I was commuting in 2005 (started around 1995) and there were hardly any cyclists around at all. Everyone thought we were nuts to cycle in London.

I have to disagree. Yes there are more cyclists around now but not that many more and cycling counts show they have risen a bit. What has changed is the concentration of cyclists on certain routes IME.

 

[martint235]

Cycle journeys doubled between 2000 and 2010. It's widely accepted that the two main triggers for this increase have occurred since Jan 2005, namely the 7/7 bombings and the financial crisis.

I'd say doubled is a significant increase.

 

[Red Light]

Cycle journeys doubled between 2000 and 2010. It's widely accepted that the two main triggers for this increase have occurred since Jan 2005, namely the 7/7 bombings and the financial crisis.

I'd say doubled is a significant increase.

"Cycle flows on London’s major roads continued to increase in 2006, with almost twice as many cycles recorded compared to 2000."​

London Travel Report 2007​

​

Cyclists crossing the River Thames Screenline daily increased by 83% between 2000 and 2005, an 83% increase

​

Seems like most of that doubling was over by 2006

 

[400bhp]

Another one on ignore - had enough of the drivel.