School Bullies

[shouldbeinbed]

@fossyant Without getting into hit him or not & trying to resolve it with the secondary school's help, not antagonising them, cos they'll be the ones there day in day out with the kids. They've seen one side is violent but you're all new to them, if they get reports of your lad lashing out as well, particularly before they've both bedded in and their true coluours are clear to the staff you may find yourself with a hard crowd to win over, if you go in as the concerned parent later on.

Reading your other posts about this family, I think you're onto a bit of a loser resolution or apology wise. Meeting the families sounds like predictable workplace 'grievance mediation between colleagues' - its not appropriate with parental emotions running high on your part and their thuggish background.
But the primary school still needs to get it's house in order to try and stop this happening to other kids, It's down to you how much you want to keep raking over the bad feelings and whether you walk away and don't look back at the place or (to my mind do the right thing and) force the school to confront their failings and hopefully save some other child and family the pain you guys have been through.
Its a bad time of the year to be doing this but remember, Heads & Teachers are paid 12 months of the year and invariably will be taking a couple of weeks leave but be back at work albeit with the doors shut and looking like they're on six week of jollies. The local authority does not work to school calendar and will be open and any chair of governors worth their salt will not mind working this over the holidays if necessary. Do not be fobbed off with 'but its the holidays' that only applies to the kids (and technically support staff who are paid term time only should you be citing class or other school staff as part of the problem/witnesses) There are also set time limits for things to be dealt with.

BUT as its so close to the end of their time at primary and the problem has now already become the secondary school's one. make friends with the head and year manager there, get them onside and highlight to them how bad its been for your son, what this lad is like:
1) your son needs people to keep an eye out for him and that he knows he can trust to go to them if he's got any concerns about this lad and something will be done.
2) the school needs to be watching the bully like a hawk from day 1 to see who he's going after next and come down on him from the off.

I guess he'll find himself another easier access victim but even so he might like to try for your lad when there's a chance. how easy is it for your son to use different ways to walk home? has he got friends he can confide in & walk with him to deter the gang up on him mentality?

 

[shouldbeinbed]

In all due respect, I have seen bullying brushed under the carpet a number of times, usually by manipulative heads who coerce the parent into their "dealing" with the matter.
This is usually becuase they want to avoind being flagged by the LA and/or Ofsted. Just the same as instances where teachers that are not up to standard are hived out and replaced by peripatetics during an Ofsted.

I am a firm believer of, if you can't get what you want from someone to your satisfaction and have exhausted reasonable avenues, go over their head.

We will no doubt agree to disagree on this.

Where do I suggest brushing it under the carpet? I'm simply advising that the suggested course of action is really not going to help fossyant's cause and if anything will give the school, if they are so minded, every opportunity to sweep it away for exactly the reasons I've put - he'd have gone against policy and tainted the people seeking to deal with it.

I clearly explain the escalation from classroom door right up to Local Authority acting as Ombudsman and suggest reporting it to Ofsted if needs be. have another read of the essay

Vigilantism doesn't work at this level, I've seen it fail. no disrespect but having experienced exactly these sort of complaints as a committed and determined Chair of Governors your advice will do more harm than good.

 

[4F]

It's depressing how many people here suggest violence as the solution to every problem, preferably extreme violence.

True however I found it was the only way that worked for me. 3 years of not being believed as "Mark" was the deputy heads son before I flipped and floored him, the last 2 years were a breeze after that.

 

[TonyEnjoyD]

Shouldbeinbed, I applaud you for your committment to fair and proper treatment and due course for these types of complaints.
My original response was a tack if normal channels hadn't been satisfactory.
The instances where I have come across manipulative and underhanded management of school bullies fortunately are in the minority, but they do exist.

Although I cannot see where in my post that I was pointing a finger at you personally, if it was implied then I apologise.

I must also ask...Vigilantism? a bit OTT!

 

[steve52]

It's depressing how many people here suggest violence as the solution to every problem, preferably extreme violence.

i dont know the best answer but for so many violence works, i do belive that we are a violent animal, and have yet to completly evole out of this, so lets learn to fight in order not to,? or so we can confrount and deal with it when its forced upon us? just my veiw untill i see somthing better.

 

[Browser]

I was picked on/bullied at school, probably because I was one of the tallest in our year and wasn't a fighter (still not). My mother was very christian i.e. turn the other cheek and so I never fought back for fear of getting into trouble at home for doing so, so my school years are not ones I look back on with any fondness at all
I've had it since school in various workplaces and guises and wish that my attitude then was as it is now i.e. non-confrontational but absolutely not prepared to tolerate any type of bullying. I had to go into bat as a team leader for a guy on my shift who I didn't particularly like but hated the smell of fish, so preceeding shifts would have kippers for breakfast the night before we took over on mornings, microwave the skins so they were reeking and they leave the plate in the control room until just before handover. I pointed out to their TL as well as others who incredulously questioned me afterwards that this constituted harrassment as defined by the company anti-bullying/harrassment policy.
We are waiting to see if our son suffers bullying as he is big/tall for his age (5ft 9in, age 12) and has Asperger syndrome or our daughter who has a moderate hearing impairment and wears hearing aids. Time will tell but we won't stand any nonsense if anything untoward does occur.

 

[MontyVeda]

No-one says thug mentality is a good thing. But what would you do if you or a loved one was being attacked?
....

if you're being attacked then defending yourself is not thuggish... coming a across someone who wronged you years ago and attacking them is.

There's a great film on the subject called Eagle Versus Shark.

 

[MontyVeda]

I'm shocked and appalled by the way some of you are boasting about your revenge years after the event.... what I learnt from being bullied is just how nasty other people can be, and chose not to become like that. I guess different people learn different lessons.

 

[Night Train]

I wouldn't condone violent revenge on a bully years after the event, I don't think it is right.
However, I also see it as good reason for me not to seek out the bullies nor attend school reunions as I may feel differently when face to face with one.
I don't know if I can be 'better then that' so I chose not to put it to the test.

Ultimately, I know I am a decent person, and always have been. They will live with having been, and possibly still being, bullies and peanuts.

The department head in my last job is a bully, his mates call it builder's banter, I know him as a c**kwomble.
Would I like to thump him? Oh yes!

Would I actually thump him? Only in self defense and if I had no other option. However, being about a million times more intelligent then him and many rungs higher up on the evolutionary ladder, there are always options.

 

[Cubist]

I. I guess different people learn different lessons.

I think you may be right Monty. For many the knowledge that they are better people for the experience of being bullied can make them feel better. They can all go and experience a warm glow of self-satisfaction knowing that they didn't lower themselves to the bullies' level.

On the other hand some people who have spent countless years of misery unable to comprehend why some spiteful bastard chose to single them out and make their lives an utter misery, year after stinking year in a system which chooses to ignore and possibly even glorify bullying may actually enjoy the cathartic experience that User76 describes. Mine wasn't an adult catharsis, but it took four people to drag me away from obliterating the face of the pointless, spineless f*ckwit that punched me because I told him I hadn't seen the Italian Job. He was two years older than me, and no one ever stood up to him. He lost two teeth and had to have surgery to his nose, and I suspect that those that dragged me off him were really rather pleased someone was willing to do it. I was never bullied again.

 

[4F]

I'm shocked and appalled by the way some of you are boasting about your revenge years after the event.... what I learnt from being bullied is just how nasty other people can be, and chose not to become like that. I guess different people learn different lessons.

I think it all relates to the amount and nastiness of the bullying at the time. Whilst I was able to resolve mine at school had I not done so I can visualise myself having the same mindset as Maggott and can totally understand where he is coming from.

 

[MontyVeda]

...
it took four people to drag me away from obliterating the face of the pointless, spineless f*ckwit that punched me
...

and if those four people weren't there you may well have 'obliterated his face'... leaving you where? In a YDC for GBH, ABH or heaven forbid, murder! All because somebody punched you over a film... by the way, was it the original or remake you hadn't seen?

It all seems very pointless in the great scheme of things.

 

[Andrew_P]

must admit Monty reveling in effectively becoming the bully wouldn't feel me with pride. Each to their own I suppose.

 

[Cubist]

and if those four people weren't there you may well have 'obliterated his face'... leaving you where? In a YDC for GBH, ABH or heaven forbid, murder! All because somebody punched you over a film... by the way, was it the original or remake you hadn't seen?

It all seems very pointless in the great scheme of things.

You just don't get it do you? Bullying is a pernicious beast that can rumble on for years. You don't seem to understand the abject misery and loss of self-esteem that some can suffer, not just while the bullying is taking place, but for years afterwards. It's like a sore that festers.

I was 12.
It was the original.
In the hoo-hah that followed the incident not a single one of the twenty or so boys that were present took the bully's side. We were in an environment that, although bullying thrived, the concept of fair play over ruled. I had a fat lip, he had a bust nose and lost a couple of teeth. Even the staff who dealt with it later took my side. They knew exactly what a nasty piece of work he was. Boarding schools in the 1970s didn't have safeguarding policies or nurturing whole community philosophies. You were expected to man-up or lie low.

I don't do conjecture, but I was recognised in later years at the school as the one who finally said enough was enough. There was an entire philosophy of who could pick on whom with impunity. By doing what I did I altered all of that.

A year after I graduated I was at an exhibition in Victoria. I saw a lad I remembered as a quiet lad at school. He was about 17 that day. His mum made a point of telling me how I had saved him from a nasty incident at eh hand of a bully. I didn't remember the incident, but he did.

Now ask me why I'm a cop.......

 

[Cubist]

must admit Monty reveling in effectively becoming the bully wouldn't feel me with pride. Each to their own I suppose.

Utter, utter shite.