Sick of cars! Lack of indicating, pavement mounting,lazy drivers etc etc

[steveindenmark]

I simply couldn't make a turn, leave a RAB, change lanes etc without indicating correctly. It's so ingrained it's 2nd nature for me. All this stuff about no one there to see it seems nonsense. How can you be absolutely sure there's no one there? Not indicating correctly is just lazy/ bad driving though it's so endemic now it's a bit pathetic really.

It is not lazy, bad driving, its advanced driving. If you need to make an informed comment then book yourself on a Advanced motorist course and see for yourself. My dad claimed he was a good driver when he tried to teach me, as does everyones dad. He was rubbish, truly awful, when you were taught by professionals. I dont claim to be a brilliant driver. Ive been an LGV1 driver for over 30 years, ADI, IOM instructor, ex police driver. If there is anything I have learnt about driving is that we dont know it all, even if we think we do. There is always more to learn if we want to go out and learn it. The ADI car course was really good fun. The police skid pan rides every year were terrible. I was sick every time.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Bit of a false choice argument. No ones saying be systemtic instead of looking where you're going after all.

You could use the "thinking" argument equally well for observation - only look in specific places for each manoevure rather than mindlessly looking everywhere.

We appear to be at slightly cross purposes - my fault I think. I'm using the term "Automatic", by which I mean just flicking the indicator with no thought to how the manouvre will effect anyone else. I do understand what you mean by "Systematic".

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Don't agree - it is being systematic. Having done motorcycle training, you are taught to do a lot of extra double checking / observing "just in case". Reduces the chance of having made a mistake. Likewise indicating helps people - the pedestrian behind a tree or whatever This isn't the same as always indicating where it might mislead, but to avoid indicating because you believe there's no one who might see it is just silly.

Was specifically challenged, by a police instructor, about unthinking indicating whilst doing my IAM motorbike test. But that was a long time ago, and, possibly, the thinking on unthinking may have changed.

 

[Profpointy]

We appear to be at slightly cross purposes - my fault I think. I'm using the term "Automatic", by which I mean just flicking the indicator with no thought to how the manouvre will effect anyone else. I do understand what you mean by "Systematic".

Can't really argue with that. I do tend to the "indicate unless there's a specific reason not too" rather then "only indicate if absoultely necessary" as it were. I am also a great believer in being systematic so things do become (good) habits - look, indicate, look again, move (this from motorcycle training) - which incidentally improved my car driving a lot and I'm now very rarely suprised by no seeing something - and even then the extra look catches it. Similarly diving - drills to determine which valve to turn off quickly and so on.

 

[Profpointy]

There are situations where you can mislead other road users by indicating.
e.g. Following a slow-moving vehicle on a main road whilst approaching a minor road on the right. Your right indicator is flashing. What are you going to do? Overtake the slow moving vehicle (when it's safe to do so), or are you going to turn right?

This was pointed out to me by my IAM examiner.

yebbut not indicating suggests you are simply carrying so so would clearley be wrong. And you wouldn't be overtaking by a junction in the first place if you had any claim to being "advanced" after all.

That said, there are valid examples - left turn ummediately followed by a layby - indicate too soon and people think you're turning into the junction and pull out - leave it till after and get beeped by twat behind for indicating "late" - I preferred the latter.

Or cycling - I would only by exception signal left as it encourages left-hooks and right-turners cutting across

 

[Oldfentiger]

yebbut not indicating suggests you are simply carrying so so would clearley be wrong. And you wouldn't be overtaking by a junction in the first place if you had any claim to being "advanced" after all.

That said, there are valid examples - left turn ummediately followed by a layby - indicate too soon and people think you're turning into the junction and pull out - leave it till after and get beeped by twat behind for indicating "late" - I preferred the latter.

Or cycling - I would only by exception signal left as it encourages left-hooks and right-turners cutting across

Which why I added "when safe to do so"

 

[MontyVeda]

So let's just get this straight, OP is sick of cars yet owns one himself....

But you still own a car....

View attachment 143249

So you're sick of everyone else's cars but not your own?

These three posts in 20 minutes are clearly the work of a troll... and quite a stupid one since you clearly don't understand the OP.

 

[Velominati]

In my opinion, there are too many distractions in a car, CD Player, DVD screens, texting, heated seats, satnav etc., when I ride my pushbike or motorcycle, I am exposed to the elements, no distractions just me and the road, I know exactly what is happening to my tyres, I know how much grip I have and I'm very aware of my surroundings, its just not like that for car drivers, with the advent of ABS, Power steering and all the other gadgets that you find in modern cars there is a real risk that drivers become desensitised to their surroundings. In older cars you could feel the road through the steering wheel, you could feel every bump in the road and there used to be fewer distractions. If the road surface was greasy or wet car drivers could compensate for it by slowing down. These days in modern cars its almost impossible for the drivers to feel at one with the road, even the sensation of speed is being lost to car drivers, if a car is being driven too fast, the on-board electronics simply compensate for it, and its okay to drive like a lunatic because there is always the airbag and side impact strengthening to protect Mr car Driver.

To be honest, when I'm out on my bike I don't expect to be seen by Mr car driver, I don't even expect them to recognise me as another human being, I'm just one more obstacle to be passed, I'm in the way, and as far as the car driver is concerned I shouldn't even be on the road, with that in mind and riding defensively, I find that I manage to get home in one piece.


For what its worth, In my experience the biggest mistake that all road users make is assuming that they know what the other road users will do, my golden rule is to ride like I'm invisible and I never, repeat never trust a car when it indicates, I learnt that through bitter experience and many broken bones.

Rant Over.

 

[Nigelnaturist]

Not true.

Indicating incorrectly will get you a fail, but indicating even though if it isn't strictly necessary won't. In Accy's BSM case he was being assessed as a potential candidate for an ADI driving test which is to an advanced standard - higher than that needed to become an IAM member.

Not true just asked down at the test centre unnecessary indicating is a fail.

 

[Profpointy]

Not true just asked down at the test centre unnecessary indicating is a fail.

Indicating when no one's there is a huge problem. Probably the the direct cause of maybe zero accidents

 

[Velominati]

Not true.

Indicating incorrectly will get you a fail, but indicating even though if it isn't strictly necessary won't. In Accy's BSM case he was being assessed as a potential candidate for an ADI driving test which is to an advanced standard - higher than that needed to become an IAM member.

If you haven't already you should give the current motorcycle test a go, one of the biggest fails is forgetting to turn off the indicators, unlike cars, motorcycles don't have self cancelling indicators, they other big fail is forgetting to carry out shoulder checks or life savers, I reckon that cyclist could learn a great deal from motorcycle training. I passed my DAS four years ago, its the best training for the road that you can get, it even improved my car driving.

 

[DaveReading]

Not true just asked down at the test centre unnecessary indicating is a fail.

I suspect that, for the purpose of the test, an "unnecessary" signal is defined as one that's not appropriate in relation to the manoeuvre you're about to make, and not in terms of whether or not there is anyone else around to see your signal.

 

[outlash]

These three posts in 20 minutes are clearly the work of a troll... and quite a stupid one since you clearly don't understand the OP.

genuine lols.

 

[Tanis8472]

what's needed is a short double yellow to protect it.

Well if people read the highway code and brushed up occasionally, they'd know that a dropped kerb is by default the same as double lines

 

[Smokin Joe]

If you haven't already you should give the current motorcycle test a go, one of the biggest fails is forgetting to turn off the indicators, unlike cars, motorcycles don't have self cancelling indicators, they other big fail is forgetting to carry out shoulder checks or life savers, I reckon that cyclist could learn a great deal from motorcycle training. I passed my DAS four years ago, its the best training for the road that you can get, it even improved my car driving.

That is indeed potentially dangerous as you are giving a misleading signal which would confuse other road users. Not the same as indicating to pull in on a straight, clear road when there is no one else in sight. Unnecessary but not in any way something that is unsafe.