Sick of cars! Lack of indicating, pavement mounting,lazy drivers etc etc

[GrumpyGregry]

I don't see how indicating no matter how much you do it,should be classed as a fail. If you're turning,overtaking,pulling in to park,attempting to rejoin traffic etc and you signal your intentions to do so why is that bad? Incorrect signalling such as signalling after the manoeuvre or indicating left two turn offs from your intended exit then yes. As for there having to be something to indicate to,like i said previously how can you be 100% certain there's no one or no vehicle relying on you signalling your intentions?

IAM Instructors give you a grilling if you indicate in a filter lane or indicate when there are no other road users to indicate too. The logic is that you are unthinkingly indicating, and unthinking indicating is a symptom of unthinking driving. You know the sort of thing signal, manoeuvre, oh sh!t!

 

[martint235]

Steve, there is no place on this forum for introspection or balance. This is a cycle forum where we bash car drivers and argue that every single car trip is one that should best be done on an HPV made from organic, home-grown materials which are PVC-free, gluten-free and green. Our carbon footprints are low and being so green, our methane emissions aren't taken into account. We are the holy of the holy.

Of course most of us own cars as well but that paradox is easily dealt with by simply joining a car forum where we can bitch and moan about cyclists riding without lights, chasing old ladies off pavements and carelessly leaning our bicycles against shop windows. Not to mention those awful revealing spandex they wear. Don't they realise that they look like a jellyfish stuffed into condom.

Tut tut tut....

Me? I'm going for a ride and a beer. It is Friday and thus morally legal to drink before noon.

Really? Can I have that in writing?

 

[Oldfentiger]

IAM Instructors give you a grilling if you indicate in a filter lane or indicate when there are no other road users to indicate too. The logic is that you are unthinkingly indicating, and unthinking indicating is a symptom of unthinking driving. You know the sort of thing signal, manoeuvre, oh sh!t!

I agree with that.
You should know whether there are any other road users around you, by using something called observation and spatial awareness.
To indicate "just in case" there is someone else near is mindless imo.

 

[Smokin Joe]

I was informed by one of my nieces when I pulled her up for not indicating that she'd been instructed that excessive use of indicators is a fail. I guess in order to indicate there must be someone to indicate to.

Not true.

Indicating incorrectly will get you a fail, but indicating even though if it isn't strictly necessary won't. In Accy's BSM case he was being assessed as a potential candidate for an ADI driving test which is to an advanced standard - higher than that needed to become an IAM member.

 

[Profpointy]

I agree with that.
You should know whether there are any other road users around you, by using something called observation and spatial awareness.
To indicate "just in case" there is someone else near is mindless imo.

Don't agree - it is being systematic. Having done motorcycle training, you are taught to do a lot of extra double checking / observing "just in case". Reduces the chance of having made a mistake. Likewise indicating helps people - the pedestrian behind a tree or whatever This isn't the same as always indicating where it might mislead, but to avoid indicating because you believe there's no one who might see it is just silly.

 

[Starchivore]

Don't agree - it is being systematic. Having done motorcycle training, you are taught to do a lot of extra double checking / observing "just in case". Reduces the chance of having made a mistake. Likewise indicating helps people - the pedestrian behind a tree or whatever This isn't the same as always indicating where it might mislead, but to avoid indicating because you believe there's no one who might see it is just silly.

I don't drive but that would be my thought too. Surely it's better just to be in the habit of following all the safety procedures all the time, rather than having another thing to assess- should I indicate or not, is anyone around to make it worth it etc. That's just another thing to have to think about isn't it?

 

[Smokin Joe]

I don't drive but that would be my thought too. Surely it's better just to be in the habit of following all the safety procedures all the time, rather than having another thing to assess- should I indicate or not, is anyone around to make it worth it etc. That's just another thing to have to think about isn't it?

It makes sure that you are thinking - and not just blindly going through the motions out of habit.

 

[steveindenmark]

Motorcycle training and getting instruction to be and IAM car member is totally different. I am a motorcyclist and a IAM car member.

I was also an ADI in cars. You are taught systems. Mirror - Signal - Manouvre, etc to get you through the test. It is the basic mimimum standard needed to get you out on the road. Hopefully, as you get more experienced the systems you learnt at the start become a framework on which you add all your new experiences to. The systems you learn at the start are not written in stone, they are just the start of a building block which you add to as you gain experience.


You indicate if it will benefit any other road user or pedestrian. Otherwise there is no need to indicate. I was on an LGV refresher course a couple of months ago and the instructor agreed with that.

The Highway code is misleading...whats new. When referring to signals there are sections which say "You must always" and other sections which say "When necessary".

 

[Profpointy]

It makes sure that you are thinking - and not just blindly going through the motions out of habit.

Isn't there an argument for blindly going through the motions in a systematic way till it becomes 2nd nature. Applies to a lot of things - scuba diving say - or military drill - or playing the piano.

 

[Glow worm]

I simply couldn't make a turn, leave a RAB, change lanes etc without indicating correctly. It's so ingrained it's 2nd nature for me. All this stuff about no one there to see it seems nonsense. How can you be absolutely sure there's no one there? Not indicating correctly is just lazy/ bad driving though it's so endemic now it's a bit pathetic really.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Isn't there an argument for blindly going through the motions in a systematic way till it becomes 2nd nature. Applies to a lot of things - scuba diving say - or military drill - or playing the piano.

The trouble is you can end up doing it so automatically you are not observing what is going on in the road. Like the guy who is indicating right and then cuts across your path for a classic SMIDSY. I'd prefer to share the roads with people who think about what they are doing and base their actions on what they see, rather than blindly going through the motions.

 

[MontyVeda]

@Starchivore
I will give you a less obvious one, my friend is wheelchair bound and in front of his house is a dipped kerb its the only one in the close the number of cars the park in front of it, well................

what's needed is a short double yellow to protect it.

 

[Starchivore]

The trouble is you can end up doing it so automatically you are not observing what is going on in the road. Like the guy who is indicating right and then cuts across your path for a classic SMIDSY. I'd prefer to share the roads with people who think about what they are doing and base their actions on what they see, rather than blindly going through the motions.

But is that guy cutting across without looking really related to him indicating? Yes he did it because it's automatic to him but surely if it hadn't been, he probably would have just cut across you anyway?

 

[Oldfentiger]

There are situations where you can mislead other road users by indicating.
e.g. Following a slow-moving vehicle on a main road whilst approaching a minor road on the right. Your right indicator is flashing. What are you going to do? Overtake the slow moving vehicle (when it's safe to do so), or are you going to turn right?

This was pointed out to me by my IAM examiner.

 

[Profpointy]

The trouble is you can end up doing it so automatically you are not observing what is going on in the road. Like the guy who is indicating right and then cuts across your path for a classic SMIDSY. I'd prefer to share the roads with people who think about what they are doing and base their actions on what they see, rather than blindly going through the motions.

Bit of a false choice argument. No ones saying be systemtic instead of looking where you're going after all.

You could use the "thinking" argument equally well for observation - only look in specific places for each manoevure rather than mindlessly looking everywhere.