Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
It’s an early 30 year old design. Not HT2 at all. It wasn’t even external bearing cups,. It was internal to the BB shell, just like square taper.
Snapped spindle
- Thread starter roubaixtuesday
- Start date
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It’s an early 30 year old design. Not HT2 at all. It wasn’t even external bearing cups,. It was internal to the BB shell, just like square taper.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
Don’t forget to give it a whack with your hammer and chisel.
Ofcourse, if you don't tension a crank enough, you don't use the benefit of the taper of the square taper...
That's not a design failure, it's an installation failure.
To illustrate: my avatar bike has had a Stronglight crankset.
I found the crank design as thin and the pedal eye sat closer to the end and sides than on my previous bike. Probably explaining the "light" of "Stronglight". But thinner means less pedal thread and closer to the end means less alu to support the hole.
And 2 years later it proved: the pedals broke loose, first the left.
Since the first, left one happened on a day with no shops open so a DIY to get the bike rideable again, and since I had an old left crank laying around, I decided to try to mount that one.
At that time, I didn't have a crank puller since I never got that problem before (20 years 25 then 55-60 km daily). So, I decided to use a hacksaw to saw as much as I could without risking touching the square taper, then a chisel to split the remainder open, I posted it here on 28 september 2019:
https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/i-have-managed-to-break-a-crank-advice.249107/post-5751115
The gradual further tensioning story spanning days of riding there clearly proves how the square taper design compensated for the different brand/model replacement crank. Once both sides surfaces had deformed towards fitting eachother, the deformating ceased, problem solved without spending bucks and using the left crank from the initial Surly crankset the bike came with, that had to be replaced a year later because it had a 3/32" instead of my requested 1/8" chainring, and I didn't find any brand selling a 1/8" chainring for its mount BCD.
To illustrate the good idea of the taper of the square of square taper: it allows to compensate, in a degree, for wear and also tolerance differences.
The Hollow Technology has nothing to compensate, meaning it's time to open the wallet at the dealer, which is about the Main Feature of the technology.
Your second link times out and can't say much about a blank page.
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roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Were you waiting for the rain to wash the crud off ?
In all seriousness, had I been arsed to clean it last night, it would already be crudded up now. I do lube and clean the chain with a rag regularly (often twice a day!), but nothing more in winter, it's pointless. Vernal equinox for a clean.
Well it was Shimano's first hollow axle aluminium technology (invented by the Priests of the Light Religion) axle and splines attempt to get rid of the too cheap and too reliable square taper attempt.
That first attempt failed (hellooow where's my crank) under loads the square taper had no problems with.
Also, in order to have sufficient contact surface, they had to design the spindle bigger, thus leaving less room for bearing and thus smaller balls and thus shorter lifetime.
They tried to solve the hellloooow... with longer splines and then they gave up, and instead redesigned the hollow axle technology, with of course, just like political parties, another name to make people forget the Octalink failures: "HollowTech".
First, HollowTech 1, was made alike their earlier Octalink from aluminium and as 3 pieces. But that was still too reliable and too cheap, so they moved to HollowTech 2, made from the then latest Light Religion's Carbon Fiber, and 2 of the parts (driveside + hollow axle) CarbonBlended to 1, so that when you left their shop, your wallet also joined the Light Religion.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
I know, but you've started someone off again !
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Well it was Shimano's first hollow axle aluminium technology (invented by the Priests of the Light Religion) axle and splines attempt to get rid of the too cheap and too reliable square taper attempt.
That first attempt failed (hellooow where's my crank) under loads the square taper had no problems with.
Also, in order to have sufficient contact surface, they had to design the spindle bigger, thus leaving less room for bearing and thus smaller balls and thus shorter lifetime.
They tried to solve the hellloooow... with longer splines and then they gave up, and instead redesigned the hollow axle technology, with of course, just like political parties, another name to make people forget the Octalink failures: "HollowTech".
First, HollowTech 1, was made alike their earlier Octalink from aluminium and as 3 pieces. But that was still too reliable and too cheap, so they moved to HollowTech 2, made from the then latest Light Religion's Carbon Fiber, and 2 of the parts (driveside + hollow axle) CarbonBlended to 1, so that when you left their shop, your wallet also joined the Light Religion.
Yawn, that's your view, and not the view of most other folk on here that know a bit about bikes.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
The axle was steel, as it is in HT2.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
My Hollowtech 2 cranks have no carbon fibre.
Dogtrousers
Lefty tighty. Get it righty.
To be honest, old loose bearings BBs are probably my favourite. But only for nostalgic reasons.
No nostalgia for cotter pins though.
Ming the Merciless
There is no mercy
- Location
- Inside my skull
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Call that a hammer....
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
I did retire a perfectly good Dura Ace 7400 BB for a cartridge UN91 - just because they were fit and forget.
It's you that started and keeps talking in terms of all or nothing in order to achieve and maintain some denial tone concerning more the poster than the posted.
My statement that a dealer used a hammer doesn't mean that he used a sledgehammer to slam from the ground behind his back. Yet you keep up what you made from it.
And a chisel, if you want to reach something in a hole, you need to put something inbetween that can passthrough the knock. That's obvious, a chisel, just like a hammer, doesn't imply doing damage. Tools can be chosen and used with any chosen force and in any way.
It just happens, that an allen key alone doesn't suffice, and that both left crank and drive sides need some help to come loose. Eventually with some cotton or plastic inbetween, as to avoid dents on precious shiny, and starting points for cracks.
I saw a dealer doing it, websites about the subject mention the possibility of the need, all I did was saying what I see from others, yet, you "re"act here alike one that uses a hammer and chisel demolishes per definition.
To illustrate: I make my motorcycle 420 chain on length by
- laying the chain on a 3 kilo block of massive steel, with the required pin laying over a 4.5 mm hole drilled 12 mm deep in it.
- then, I set a massive steel 20 on 10 mm cilinder (from a heavy machine cilinder bearing - cilinders instead of balls) on the end of the pin, and hammer the pin to equal the outer link plate surface, a position where the pen moves alot easier.
- then, I use a "doorslag" (don't know the english word for it), a kinda 3 cm long cilindric part with another 5 cm hexagon part to hammer on. I hammer with many slight blows the links pen further through the plates, protruding in the drilled hole, now and then checking how much protruding, to then stop to check if I can detach the link, until I can, after which the chain is ready to close again with the quicklink.
Why: because I had to conclude that the dedicated chain tools I bought, 20-30 euro, even those explicitly declared by the same motorcycle shop as the chain, despite all being careful and following the manual, broke their pin or their support clamp before the rivetted part of the pen passed.
It takes longer, but it doesn't affect my wallet.
-
Again an interpretation outside the obvious:
"Well it was Shimano's first hollow axle aluminium technology"
I illustrated the history of the Lightweight Religion.
First aluminium instead of steel for cranks.
Then hollow instead of massive steel axle (Octalink).
Then redesign with bearings external (HollowTech)
Then carbon fiber instead of aluminium for cranks.
It's not because yours isn't carbon fiber, that they aren't available.
All your denials are based on pickpecking words and hunts for other interpretations.
