So....your Titanium ultimate Bike....... ?

[Ajax Bay]

There has been a few I've seen that give data referencing the difference between frame materials, Sheldon Brown being one although that is a bit out of date now, most frames have larger diameter tubes for example. The problem with data in relation to the riding experience comes down to perception.

Thank you. The bit from Sheldon which seems relevant is:
"Vertical stiffness
"(Since this article deals with frames, the issue at hand is road shock transmitted from the rear tire to the saddle. Ride qualities experienced at the handlebars are to a large extent determined by the fork, as well as geometry, and flex in other bolt-on parts, but are unrelated to the choice of frame material.)
Much of the commonplace B.S. that is talked about different frame materials relates to imagined differences in vertical stiffness. It will be said that one frame has a comfy ride and absorbs road shocks, while another is alleged to be harsh and make you feel every crack in the pavement. Virtually all of these "differences" are either the imaginary result of the placebo effect, or are caused by something other than the frame material choice."

If Sheldon's view is "out of date" have you got a suggestion of a commentary which is up-to-date (or less out-of-date), please?
If experienced riders like you can perceive the smoother nature of the ride a Ti frame offers, I'm surprised that there isn't research which provides some basis for that widely described advantage. Surely such work would be worth Ti frame manufacturers and Ti bike specialists sharing.

 

[vickster]

But if Ti as a material offers ride quality advantages, why would people not wish to take advantage of that? (Edit: Paul has explained - thank you) Aren't the frames "very expensive" (or are we talking 'very, very expensive' (shades of 'Pretty Woman' here))?.
OT:
Edward: We are going to be spending an obscene amount of money in here. So we're going to need a lot more help sucking up to us, 'cause that's what we really like.
Hollister: Ohhhh!
Edward: You understand that.
Hollister: Sir, if I may say so, you're in the right store, and the right city, for that matter.
Hollister: Exactly how obscene an amount of money were you talking about? Just… profane, or really offensive?
Edward: Really offensive.

Love Pretty Woman

Anyhow, no, relatively Ti doesn't have to be very expensive (my Sabbath frameset is £1200). But it can be rather more so if you look at the likes of Moots. Most mainstream Ti framesets are sub 2k. That may be very expensive to you

I love the springiness of Ti. Go test ride a few and decide for yourself if it's for you. I like steel but subjectively to me it does feel difference. Carbon is ok but with the arrival of the Ti, mine will be relegated to 3rd if not 4th ranking in the stable. I'm not personsOnalky interested in the science or engineering as to why I want Ti. I'm fortunate that I can afford it (although it's misfortune thstbhas allowed me to be able to and justify what's essentially a non essential treat)

 

[Ian H]

I'm not convinced (as the owner of two Ti frames plus others) that I could tell whether a painted frame was steel, carbon, aluminium or titanium. There's far more difference between (for instance) a well-built steel frame and a poorly-built one than between good ones in different materials.

Of my Ti frames, one has a steel fork, the other carbon.

 

[Paul_Smith SRCC]

...If experienced riders like you can perceive the smoother nature of the ride a Ti frame offers, I'm surprised that there isn't research which provides some basis for that widely described advantage. Surely such work would be worth Ti frame manufacturers and Ti bike specialists sharing.

The key word there is "perceive" and why I used my Andy Murray's tennis racket analogy. If you are considering 'Ti' versus 'Steel' or another material then if possible ride relevant options of each that you are considering , that way you can make your own conclusions.

Every bike is the sum of it's parts, frame geometry, bike fit achievable, fork specification, wheel stiffness, tyre size and pressure and as far as I'm concerned frame material ( as well as other factors) all contribute to the riding experience. No matter what the frame is made of, if designed correctly and built correctly it will perform as it should, there will be differences but as far as I'm concerned only the rider can conclude how much of a difference.

 

[bpsmith]

Rather enjoyed the Sheldon quote on frame material.

1. People regularly quote his stuff as being the gospel.

2. People regularly say Steel and Ti is better than Carbon and feels totally different.

Sometimes the people in number 1 are the same people in number 2. Yet Sheldon says they’re wrong. Go figure.

 

[Ajax Bay]

as the owner of two Ti frames plus [many] others)

FTFY

There's far more difference between (for instance) a well-built steel frame and a poorly-built one than between good ones in different materials.

I guess because Ti welding is much more difficult, a Ti frame will 'always' be made with full attention to design/geometry and to construction quality and finish whereas the quality (various aspects) of a steel frame, unless bespoke or from a 'one-at-a-time' frame builder, is far less assured.
I bought a titanium alloy framed bike back in 1983 - it was awesome. It remained excellent even after a kind soul pointed out that ALAN produced those screwed and glued frames out of aluminium. The seller, a local publican, had moved on some time ago.

 

[Venod]

The key word there is "perceive" and why I used my Andy Murray's tennis racket analogy. If you are considering 'Ti' versus 'Steel' or another material then if possible ride relevant options of each that you are considering , that way you can make your own conclusions.

Every bike is the sum of it's parts, frame geometry, bike fit achievable, fork specification, wheel stiffness, tyre size and pressure and as far as I'm concerned frame material ( as well as other factors) all contribute to the riding experience. No matter what the frame is made of, if designed correctly and built correctly it will perform as it should, there will be differences but as far as I'm concerned only the rider can conclude how much of a difference.

This is exactly how I feel about frame material, Ti is my favourite not because of its ride quality (although the ones I've had and still have all rode/ride brilliantly) but the ease of maintenance is the reason, wipe it done and it looks like new, polish it with some chrome cleaner or similar and it looks better than new, get a bit of unexpected cable rub, buff it out, I have just done a complete overhaul of my Van Nic, I removed all the frame stickers (can't bring myself to call them decals) as they were looking shabby, I polished it up, you now need sunglasses to go anywhere near it.