[SPOILER ALERT] - F1 & Jules Bianchi

[Learnincurve]

Are the drivers getting too young for the sport?

Only in the sense that they don't have the mental strength or detailed knowledge they need yet. It's not just about being able to drive a car and go fast it's about respecting the rules, official like speed limits, or unofficial like backing out of certain corners at X point if the other person has the upper hand. As good as this Max kid may be, red bull are massively jumping the gun here, probably because his people wanted a jr team contract or he would go to macclaran or Ferrari young drivers instead and Marko needed a new project. He should be sat in a GP3/GP2 team for a few years, make him a test driver if you want him to have F1 experience.


I actually have worse and serious news, I thought it had been posted in here before.

Andrea De Cesaris died in a motorcycle crash today.

 

[Rasmus]

Massa and is on record as saying he was calling for a safety car 5 laps before it went out, he's one of the three directors of the GPDA (The Grand Prix Drivers' Association). It's 50/50 on who was happy on inters, only Hamilton is quoted as saying he didn't think it needed a safety car, many other people, including Jenson think it did. Don't be that guy who takes Hamilton's word for it, he is well known for only ever calling for a safety car whenever he is Aquaplaning and tends to forget that some of the younger drivers or backmarkers are not able to hold it together like he can, as I fear we saw today.

I was watching the Sky coverage live so I may have a different perspective on this. Before the track parade even started Brundle categorically stated he felt that the main race should have taken place earlier when the support races did and the other's all couldn't understand why the FIA had asked twice rather than demanded.

I don't think this needs a knee jerk reaction, firstly we need to look at what is allowed trackside and also marshal training, this isn't the first time this year marshals have put themselves at risk. They should be thanking their stars that he hit the JCB and not the 4 of them stood round sutils car moving it.

Secondly we need to enforce the rules already in place, we are in danger of/already are thinking that because a fatal accident hasn't happened in 20 years then it won't happen and are getting lax, no way cars should have been going the speed the way they were with double yellows out for example.

A morbid fact is that there was a near fatal accident the last time it was a washout in Japan. 20 years ago, on that same corner, Brundle went off and his head missed hitting a JCB out to retrieve another car by inches.

Agree on Hamilton and his silly radio messages. But likewise Button is known for being somewhat opportunist when rain conditions change. It seems clear to me, though, that most drivers and teams thought the track was OK to drive on inters. Also: If the cars cannot be driven safely in conditions that require full wets, they need to either change the regs so they can, or flat out cancel the race if the rain is close to that level.

As you, I expect there will be a review of procedures - but it is not an easy question, and you cannot eliminate all risk. How long do you delay response to a driver that has crashed and requires medical attention? Even with the SC deployed, it takes several minutes for all the cars to catch up to the procession. How much larger is the risk involved in crashing into a recovery vehicle compared the risk of hitting a crashed car that is not removed?

 

[Learnincurve]

We don't want any knee jerk reactions, the SC went out because the medical car was called, the medical car actually went blasting past the SC as it went out so there was no delay because a SC was needed. Charlie can red flag a race if it's too wet for full wets, iirc before this race the last one was Brazil 2012 and before that canada 2011 but there may have been a Malasya in those years as well. For half points they need to do 2 complete laps behind a safety car and then it's half points to 41. This is the problem today, some drivers may very well have been calling for a SC 5 laps before the accident, that makes it lap 36. Charlie also has the FIA and Bernie in his ear telling him that they don't want half points.

It's chuffing amazing that the guy hit a JCB at 100mph and wasn't instantly killed, and it's a testament to how much work people like Dr Sid, Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda and Charlie have done over the years. What Charlie needs to do is be consistent and tell the media and drivers "Ok, Shut up, there is a risk of Aquaplaning we are having a safety car, stop whining about "the show""

 

[Learnincurve]

Christ. It looks like Jules has had another bleed, is now on a ventilator and is going in for another operation. News is breaking in french unsurprisingly. https://fr.sports.yahoo.com/news/l-état-santé-bianchi-serait-184033628.html

 

[classic33]

The thing is Professor Sid Watkins has died and the work he started hasn't all been carried forward.
Button won in the wet under the two hour rule in a race which was Red Flagged and the clock stopped four hours after the race started.
Questions that do need asking is why was the medical centre locked and did it slow the process down?
The reason for the medical car "being let past" the Safety Car is that the Safety Car now acts in a similar way to a rolling roadblock. Allowing emergency vehicles immediate, unhindered access to the scene.

 

[smokeysmoo]

Are the drivers getting too young for the sport?

Definitely SOME are IMO!

 

[Learnincurve]

.
Questions that do need asking is why was the medical centre locked and did it slow the process down?

The reason for the medical car "being let past" the Safety Car is that the Safety Car now acts in a similar way to a rolling roadblock. Allowing emergency vehicles immediate, unhindered access to the scene.

Looks like the medical centre was locked to stop people getting in by the staff already inside, the ambulance was not there yet. Sounded like Graeme Lowdon and the lads made them unlock it because they were forcing the doors.

The Safety car had gone about 3 yards out of the pits when the medical car went blasting past it.

It's very simple, putting a JCB track side in the rain was a stupid thing to do and we learned nothing from María de Villota's death.

 

[classic33]

The FIA Official who issued the statement, shown on Sky, had to assist in the forcing of the doors open to the medical centre. The FIA were also locked out of the building. Why?

Medical car takes precedence. Safety Car then acts as a rolling road block to allow the medical car unhindered access to the scene.

What vehicle would you say is used instead of what was used to recover vehicles from the trackside? Often in areas designed to trap a vehicle.

Hindsight is a wonderful weapon/tool.

 

[Learnincurve]

Update: French media got a few things confused. Firstly there was no second operation but he is not breathing unaided http://www1.skysports.com/f1/report...ter-emergency-surgery-on-severe-head-injuries

So it sounds like it is much worse than first reported but not as bad as the stuff they were saying after.

 

[byegad]

Very sad and I wish Bianci a fast and full recovery.

However as it happened under double yellows it was a freakish accident. Drivers have to demonstrably slow their pace in the yellow flag area so quite how he lost the car needs investigating. Was he on very worn Inters for instance?

As to stopping the race before Sutil's accident I think the conditions were not that bad, Hamilton and several other drivers were managing to lap very quickly on worn Inters and some cars had pitted and fitted Inters as the rain got worse, while others had gone to full wets.

ANY motor race is dangerous and can kill. F1 is a very safe formula these days. I was watching in the 1960s when you knew that several of the drivers on the first grid of the season may die or be seriously injured before the end of that season in their cars. Certainly the much discussed issue of using building site vehicles to clear stopped cars from the circuit should be addressed, perhaps fitting equipment to them to avoid a car going under will at last be considered.

 

[Learnincurve]

As to stopping the race before Sutil's accident I think the conditions were not that bad, Hamilton and several other drivers were managing to lap very quickly on worn Inters and some cars had pitted and fitted Inters as the rain got worse, while others had gone to full wets..

Although I do agree with you, this is the trap racing fans fall into and have done since racing began and it;s "if the top guys say it's fine for them then it must be fine". When it comes to safety they don't look at what the top guys can handle, they look at what the 19 year old rookie can handle.

The "Hamilton and several others" who were saying it was fine were either WDC drivers or in a postition where a safty car would have messed up their race. It's why Charlie will ask a select few directors or former directors what they think, it used to be Schumacher, Webbah, Massa and Alonso. It's reported to be just the last two at the moment. It's not a slight on anyone, it's just as I said, just because a former WDC can handle something does not mean that the 22 year old backmarker won't misjudge his speed or, and we don't know if this is the case, that the 22 year old in the least advanced car in the grid didn't have his brakes fail which put him too fast into a corner where he then spun and aquaplaned.

This last part is to do with the new brake by wire systems that need a lot of heat to work, this is another reason modern F1 cars need safety cars and red flagging in heavy rain.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

In any race the only person who can say what a driver can handle in terms of driving conditions is the individual driver. Hamilton can't decide for the backmarkers just the same as Chilton can't decide for Vettel.


GC

 

[Brob2]

Very sad and I wish Bianci a fast and full recovery.

However as it happened under double yellows it was a freakish accident. Drivers have to demonstrably slow their pace in the yellow flag area so quite how he lost the car needs investigating. Was he on very worn Inters for instance?

This ^

How cars can be still going at race speed (or at least fast enough to lose control), when marshalls are on the track, needs investigation.

I think there is a certain pride and competition between marshalls around the world at how quickly they are able to recover cars. This culture needs to stop.

In these conditions, with standing water and increasing rain and darkness, it is quite possible he would not have seen the yellows and his only way of knowing of the caution would have been through his ear-set. Even had he been aware of the local yellows drivers reduce speed so little these days that I am not surprised such an accident could occur. What seems incredibly fortunate on a very bad day is that no track workers were killed given they were working in the precise location of Bianci's crash. That was a stroke of luck.

I will add, given F1's requirement that evac 'copters be available during all track sessions, that when they are unable to fly, regardless of the reason, the track is closed. Sounds like it wouldn't have helped in this instance but the logic seems reasonable.

 

[smokeysmoo]

Yesterday was definitely not a good news day for F1

R.I.P. Andrea de Cesaris - LINK

 

[Learnincurve]

Ok guys I've seen footage, I'm not going to link it. He span into the so hard into the JCB the impact caused it to lift about 3ft into the air. The timing screens had him going into the corner at 210kph and suddenly stopping at 90kph.

From what I saw it is likely that they are waiting for his family to arrive in Japan before making a decision on turning off life support.