Sportives - are they out of control?

[Rob3rt]

Very noble, but missing the point. The issue is not with riders thinking they are races - it is with organisers making them look like races and doing nothing to discourage it.

Absolutely, many make it look like a race, but then say "it is not a race" over and over again, such as to dodge the laws regarding cycle racing on the public highways. If they truly are not races (which is the case) then organisers need to stop dressing them up like a race, since this won't happen voluntarily, johnny law really ought to step in and regulate them to force the stripping away of these aspects.

 

[jowwy]

I'm with DCLane and 400bhp on this.

The Wiggle Dragon Ride is inherently unsafe. What's on the risk assessment, heaven alone knows. Recceing for the South Wales FNRttC we found one junction that was so unsafe I had to re-think the route - and that was for 50 riders, none of whom were in a hurry who would have been told to signal to each other and give the people in front some room (and would have been told the error of their ways had they got it wrong). Sure enough - come the Dragon ride there was a pile-up at the junction, and, according to somebody who rode away without looking back, horrifying screams. Equally...descending over cattle grids at high speed on slick tyres is a dumbass thing to do, and yet they piled over (and, in at least one case, had a serious off), at thirty miles an hour.

One of these fine days somebody (or somebody's relatives) will take Human Race (the organisers) apart in the courts.

pro's ride over cattle grids at break neck speeds - i know cause i have watched them do it - i also have to ride over cattle grids at high speed, cause they are on a very downhill high speed stretch of road - there's nothing that can be done about it - its upto each individual person how they ride these events/sportives/audaxes/time trials call them what you want. i'm sure on here there are plenty of club riders that go over cattle grids in groups at break neck speeds too


and i'm pretty sure its not just the Dragon Ride and Human race that do these sportives, but lets use them as arguing point cause they are well known.

 

[Rob3rt]

what can they do - let the riders tyres down, remove the computers, gps what???? people will race whether its within the confines of the rules or not - its called life

You can't remove the mentality from the individual, but you can strip away aspects which will offer a tangible "reward" for such behaviour!

 

[jowwy]

You can't remove the mentality from the individual, but you can strip away aspects which will offer a tangible "reward" for such behaviour!

so what would you strip??

 

[Dusty Bin]

what can they do - let the riders tyres down, remove the computers, gps what???? people will race whether its within the confines of the rules or not - its called life

Once sportive riders are on the open road, they are subject to the same highway code as all other vehicular traffic. That means waiting at junctions, stopping at red lights and generally observing the rules of the road. The same is not true within a race convoy.

 

[dellzeqq]

pro's riding over cattle grids at break neck speeds - i know cause i have watched them do it - i also have to ride over cattle grids at high speed, cause they are on a very downhill high stretch peice of road - there's nothing that can be done about it - its upto each individual person how they ride these events/sportives/audaxes/time trials call them what you want. i'm sure on here there are plenty of club riders that go over cattle grids in groups at break neck speeds too

you're missing the point. If I design a building I have to assess the risk. If I design a bicycle ride I have to assess the risk. In fact I use the same approach to both - prioritising elimination of the risk, and then mitigation, and, if that's not possible, highlighting the risk to those constructing and managing the building or those taking part in the ride.

And......the junction to the east of Cwmafan was an accident waiting to happen. So I took the FNRttC a different way. Human Race decided the way to mitigate the risk was to have someone waving a flag (unseen by my friend, but let's suppose it was there). A flag isn't the most eloquent of warnings, and, in this case, didn't warn people sufficiently of a traffic light round a left hand bend.

As for the cattle grids - it's perfectly possible to have a slowing down zone to mitigate the risk.

Bear in mind that these are third party risks. The person who piles around a blind corner and hits a stationary cyclist at a red light isn't simply taking a chance on (usually) his behalf. He's risking the people he slams in to.

 

[jowwy]

Once sportive riders are on the open road, they are subject to the same highway code as all other vehicular traffic. That means waiting at junctions, stopping at red lights and generally observing the rules of the road. The same is not true within a race convoy.

so the regulations are all ready in place then - why add more

 

[jowwy]

If only life were so simple.

life can be as simple as you make it - yes there are outside mitigating circumstances that can make it difficult and beyond our personal control

bet when entering a sportive you ride it how you see it, i see it as a non race

 

[Rob3rt]

so what would you strip??

Just for sake of making a point (there are probably more eloquent ways to approach the problem), timing!

 

[jowwy]

Just for sake of making a point (there are probably more eloquent ways to approach the problem), timing!

 

[jowwy]

I think we all understand that you see sportives as not races. We all also know that the organisers are careful to say that they are not races. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are not races though.

they are only races for the small amount of individuals that think they are - do we know how many people that think they are races - NO

i would remove two things from sportives if it helps people think that its not a race and thats timing chips and numbers on bikes.

 

[Dusty Bin]

so the regulations are all ready in place then - why add more

Do you even understand what this thread is about?

 

[jowwy]

Do you even understand what this thread is about?

yes - next question

 

[Rob3rt]

they are only races for the small amount of individuals that think they are - do we know how many people that think they are races - NO

i would remove two things from sportives if it helps people think that its not a race and thats timing chips and numbers on bikes.

It doesn't matter how many participants think they are taking part in races or not.

Numbers on bikes are not a problem, this allows them to record who completed and who didn't. They could then list who finished the event on their website. But with no times and no indication of finishing order they would be removing the tangible reward for the faux-racer (i.e. their name up on the internet with their time and their position, to show how many people they beat).

 

[jowwy]

It doesn't matter how many participants think they are taking part in races or not.

Numbers on bikes are not a problem, this allows them to record who completed and who didn't. They could then list who finished the event on their website. But with no times and no indication of finishing order they would be removing the tangible reward for the faux-racer (i.e. their name up on the internet with their time and their position, to show how many people they beat).

and this i would agree with Rob3rt