Stem headset tightening

[Andy in Germany]

Or: Am I missing the blindingly obvious?

So here's the headset on the newly rebuilt bike. Notice scratches from spanner.

It won't stay tight: either it is hard to steer, or the forks wobble.

Sometimes, by way of variation, they do both. I'm not sure how they manage that either.

A couple of possibly daft questions:

1: Are all the various screws in the right order? According to Sheldon Brown I think they are, but what do I know?

2: In the absence of instructions I'm assuming all the parts are tightened in the same direction: ie screwed down towards the wheel, but that seems to make the toothed screw redundant. Is it that the to two screws above the washer are supposed to be tightened against each other?

Any other thoughts welcome...

 

[rogerzilla]

Generally, if a headset won't hit the sweet spot between tight and loose, it's misassembled or the frame and fork need facing.

Are the bearing cages the right way up?

 

[rualexander]

Is it that the to two screws above the washer are supposed to be tightened against each other?
...

If it's an old style threaded headset, then yes, the top nut and the locking nut are tightened in opposite directions against each other once you have eliminated any play in the bearings.

 

[fossyant]

Crap headset, sorry.

Looks a bad design. I'd be expecting two locking parts which use headset spanners, and a washer in-between ! Not a spanner and what looks like a BB lockring spanner (the part with the bit cut out).

 

[fossyant]

SJS Cycles have loads of threaded headsets, for very reasonable prices.

 

[midlife]

Is the ring with the notch in it threaded? There should only be 2 threaded items, the threaded top race and the lock nut.....

 

[Andy in Germany]

Thanks for the replies and suggestions. taking what I've read thus far:

1: The headset is crap. (Thanks @fossyant, telling it how it is there. I did end up tightening it with a BB spanner)

2: Medium to long term solution therefore is a new headset, and a set of headset spanners. Will have to find a local version of SJS cycles...

3: In the meantime I'll assume this is an older style headset as suggested by @rualexander and hope that holds it together for the mini tour planned next week.

@midlife: yes it is threaded, and it is a pig to tighten because the washer gets in the way all the time. The washer itself is also very loose in the screw thread notch and moves when I turn handlebars, which tends so support the @fossyant "Crap headset" theory again...

(Oh yes, and @rogerzilla: I'll check the bearing cups. We were pretty careful about those but you never know...)

 

[chriswoody]

Bike24 has this Ritchey Logic headset for €10.90 plus postage at €4.29. You may even be able to pick one up local for less. It comes with all of the correct spacers and locknuts so should solve all of your problems.

 

[midlife]

Personally I'd throw away the middle threaded notched ring and use the hanger as the middle washer, assuming the lock not doesn't bottom out. And then buy a Tange Passage or Levin

 

[rualexander]

I'm thinking that the cable hanger/washer should be between the top locknut and the other threaded nut, rather than underneath it?
Remove them and then replace with the notched nut first on and tighten the bearings with this, then fit the cable hanger washer, then finally the top locknut. Hold the notched nut in position with whatever spanner is designed for it then tighten the top locknut against the whole assembly

 

[fossyant]

Sorry to be honest OP, but there are some really good standard headsets out there. I appreciate why aheadset is now the norm as it's a doddle to adjust.

Three of my 5 bikes are standard headsets, and have been on the bikes years.

 

[rogerzilla]

Especially on cheap bikes, it's well worth having the head tube and fork crown faced when the new headset is fitted. In my experience, about half of older steel frames are poorly faced (modern Taiwanese frames are better) and this means the headset will never adjust correctly. It only takes 5-10 minutes with the right tools.

Don't mail order a headset unless you know about stack heights.

 

[Illaveago]

I'm thinking that the cable hanger/washer should be between the top locknut and the other threaded nut, rather than underneath it?
Remove them and then replace with the notched nut first on and tighten the bearings with this, then fit the cable hanger washer, then finally the top locknut. Hold the notched nut in position with whatever spanner is designed for it then tighten the top locknut against the whole assembly

Yes! It does look like the bottom knurled nut needs to be locked in position once it is adjusted correctly using that locking ring. The cable holder would go next followed by the top nut .

 

[Illaveago]

Or: Am I missing the blindingly obvious?

View attachment 481424
So here's the headset on the newly rebuilt bike. Notice scratches from spanner.

It won't stay tight: either it is hard to steer, or the forks wobble.

Sometimes, by way of variation, they do both. I'm not sure how they manage that either.

A couple of possibly daft questions:

1: Are all the various screws in the right order? According to Sheldon Brown I think they are, but what do I know?

2: In the absence of instructions I'm assuming all the parts are tightened in the same direction: ie screwed down towards the wheel, but that seems to make the toothed screw redundant. Is it that the to two screws above the washer are supposed to be tightened against each other?

Any other thoughts welcome...

Try rearranging the order of components as I suggested above. It may work !

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

I appreciate why aheadset is now the norm as it's a doddle to adjust..

All of my bikes have proper quill type headsets and I don't find any of them a problem to adjust. That applies irrespective of it being a quality 531 bike or a far-east cheapo I've pulled out of a skip. The only obvious difference is the surface finish on the visible bits. Cheap bike headsets usually look tatty after a few years exposure to the elements, but they still work and adjust ok regardless.