The Football.....

[Chislenko]

I don't and never have supported a "big team" so from a club football point of view it doesn't impact me but as a Wales supporter I am concerned if they do impose a player ban for international football from these clubs.

So far looking at the club's involved we would lose Bale, Rodon, Davies, Ramsey, Williams, Smith, James to name seven off the top of my head. For a country our size we simply do not have the numbers to replace with like for like.

I feel sure other smaller nations would be similarly impacted.

 

[yello]

I am concerned if they do impose a player ban for international football from these clubs.

I think it's just a threat. For UEFA/FIFA to punish the players like that would be unjust imho.

You can't (always) blame the staff for the actions of their bosses. The players have contracts, signed with the club, and unless there's some kind of clause (that predicted such a scenario) then they're legally bound to play.

 

[Chislenko]

I think it's just a threat. For UEFA/FIFA to punish the players like that would be unjust imho.

You can't (always) blame the staff for the actions of their bosses. The players have contracts, signed with the club, and unless there's some kind of clause (that predicted such a scenario) then they're legally bound to play.

They appear to be serious about the threat hello

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport...resident-confirms-wales-european-20418458.amp

 

[yello]

Hello.

I suppose a threat has to appear serious otherwise it's not much of a threat!

 

[PaulB]

I've seen proposals for Spurs to form a new breakaway league in which they are the only team in it. They're second favourites to win it.

 

[jowwy]

I think it's just a threat. For UEFA/FIFA to punish the players like that would be unjust imho.

You can't (always) blame the staff for the actions of their bosses. The players have contracts, signed with the club, and unless there's some kind of clause (that predicted such a scenario) then they're legally bound to play.

i don't think they are legally bound to play international football........contracts are with clubs, not countries

 

[yello]

i don't think they are legally bound to play international football........contracts are with clubs, not countries

I think you've misinterpreted what I said.

 

[jowwy]

I think you've misinterpreted what I said.

no i didnt - you answered a question about wales losing international players with the following statement......

"You can't (always) blame the staff for the actions of their bosses. The players have contracts, signed with the club, and unless there's some kind of clause (that predicted such a scenario) then they're legally bound to play."


but they are not legally bound to play international football, only club football

 

[yello]

@jowwy, with all due respect, I can most assuredly say that you have misinterpreted me! We are actually saying the same thing.

You've taken the implication that I said the players are legally bound to play for their country. Read my words again (the one's you quoted) and you'll see that I didn't use those words. You've read that in. Whilst not explicitly stating it, I meant that they are legally bound (contracted) to play for their clubs.

To further explain my thought process, if a player's clubs moves to the ESL then the player has to go too (until their contract expires or is terminated) So imo, It would be unjust for anyone to ban them from playing for their county for doing something they have been legally obliged to do (that is, play in the ESL)

 

[jowwy]

@jowwy, with all due respect, I can most assuredly say that you have misinterpreted me! We are actually saying the same thing.

You've taken the implication that I said the players are legally bound to play for their country. Read my words again (the one's you quoted) and you'll see that I didn't use those words. You've read that in. Whilst not explicitly stating it, I meant that they are legally bound (contracted) to play for their clubs.

To further explain my thought process, if a player's clubs moves to the ESL then the player has to go too (until their contract expires or is terminated) So imo, It would be unjust for anyone to ban them from playing for their county for doing something they have been legally obliged to do (that is, play in the ESL)

and if uefa call it an unsanctioned tournament, then they have the right to ban the players from international football, for playing in an unsanctioned competition....whether they are contracted to play in it by their clubs or not.

When players sign contracts they will be made aware of what competitions they will play in, currently none of the players will have the ESL listed as a competition in their contracts, so they can by right refuse to play in it, as it could/would cost them their international spot.

contracts will state that players will play for x,y,z club in all sanctioned uefa and fifa competitions for their respected club. ESL will not be a sanctioned competition as it currently stands, therefore they are not legally obliged to play in it....do you think a current top 6 player, would sign a contract that would put their international career in jeapordy, by playing in an unsanctioned competition???

 

[yello]

So, yes, moving on.

When players sign contracts they will be made aware of what competitions they will play in, currently none of the players will have the ESL listed as a competition in their contracts, so they can by right refuse to play in it, as it could/would cost them their international spot.

Do you know this (bolded bit) to be true or is it supposition on your part?

From my (non lawyer / non legal ) perspective, it might be difficult to argue that you don't have to compete in competition that is not specified in your contract. Double negatives aside (as such things could be argued either way*), it does beg the question on friendlies, pre-season tours, etc. Does each one have to be specified, and in how much detail (when, where, etc) I'm sure such things could be drafted in but as to whether they are, well, that's another matter.

(*for clarity, "it doesn't say I must" can equally be argued it "it doesn't say you can refuse either")

 

[jowwy]

So, yes, moving on.



Do you know this (bolded bit) to be true or is it supposition on your part?

From my (non lawyer / non legal ) perspective, it might be difficult to argue that you don't have to compete in competition that is not specified in your contract. Double negatives aside (as such things could be argued either way*), it does beg the question on friendlies, pre-season tours, etc. Does each one have to be specified, and in how much detail (when, where, etc) I'm sure such things could be drafted in but as to whether they are, well, that's another matter.

(*for clarity, "it doesn't say I must" can equally be argued it "it doesn't say you can refuse either")

it would and is true, as the ESL currently is NOT a competition......so how or why would players have it listed as a contracted competition??

and yes as an ex club footballer ( non professional) when signing for a club it states, that you can only play in sanctioned competitions for insurance and licensing purposes......yes in club football players require a licence to play

 

[yello]

how or why would players have it listed as a contracted competition??

Indeed. My point, by the same token, is that it cannot be specifically excluded either!

I hear what you say about 'sanctioned' (and how this might be used to determine what is included and what is excluded) but I fear this is a legal argument in the waiting. I can see the clubs arguing UEFA's use of 'sanction' and how it impacts on the contracts. My bigger fear, and indeed my initial point, is that the player is caught in the middle of this. Using the player (be it the club or UEFA) as a bargaining chip is, imo, unjust. I really don't think either would do it to to the players nor the nations involved.

 

[RoadRider400]

I don't and never have supported a "big team" so from a club football point of view it doesn't impact me but as a Wales supporter I am concerned if they do impose a player ban for international football from these clubs.

So far looking at the club's involved we would lose Bale, Rodon, Davies, Ramsey, Williams, Smith, James to name seven off the top of my head. For a country our size we simply do not have the numbers to replace with like for like.

I feel sure other smaller nations would be similarly impacted.

It might only be for the World Cup itself rather than qualifiers. If so it will not make any difference to Wales.

 

[jowwy]

Indeed. My point, by the same token, is that it cannot be specifically excluded either!

.

it can't be included as it doesn't exist as an entity.........why would a contract have written into it something that doesn't exist???

i give up...have a good day