The 'need' to indicate - ?

[figbat]

Another thing about indication is that some drivers believe that using an indicator gives them some kind of right to do whatever the indicator is showing, like change lanes on a motorway or stop on a double-yellow. The cry "but I was indicating" seems to be a total defence.

 

[Drago]

I bet the OP sits in a left turn only lanes blithely indicating left...just in case anyone was thinking he might turn right, or even take flight!

 

[CanucksTraveller]

Some years back, a colleague and I had a discussion with our guv'nor about whether when driving you need to indicate when there's no other traffic about. We were / are of the view that it should be an 'automatic habit' regardless of traffic conditions.

Your thoughts - !

The process of considering a signal should certainly be automatic, although the signal itself may not always be so.
Advanced drivers learn the "information" phase as part of the system of car control, that's taking in information but also "giving information" which will include signalling in all its forms. Information is constantly assessed through all phases of negotiating a hazard, so the theory is that you should always be considering whether a signal will help and / or be appropriate at that hazard. You might find (like in @figbat 's complicated junction in page 2) that a signal could actually be misleading or misunderstood, so you may adapt to that situation differently, say with a lower speed through the hazard, and more careful positioning for example.

In practice, at most junctions, I'm going to signal nearly every time unless I consider that it might confuse other road users. When the roads are really dead I might not use a signal, but most likely I will. Just depends on the information I'm taking in. Here in the South East the roads are rarely so dead that a signal is definitely unnecessary, even at 3am.

 

[a.twiddler]

Whether you indicate or not, other road users including non motorised ones would be wise to assume that a flashing indicator is only evidence that the bulb or LED is working, and not absolute proof of the vehicle's intentions.

Like Schroedinger's cat, there are several simultaneous states which could be true but which can't be determined until further events occur, eg turning or not -turning.

A cyclist's arm might not be extended before turning, but there's no malfunction that could cause it to remain unknowingly extended unlike an uncancelled electric indicator.

Not sure where I'm going with this. I suppose it's dangerous to assume anything, and to try not to add to the confusion by doing something unpredictable.

It used to be said when I was a newbie motorcyclist that it's the one you don't see that gets you, and that it's always safer to assume the existence of the invisible driver. Waay back then, you depended on giving hand signals so you gave a positive sign to other road users, as you do on a cycle.

Now that motorised road users take the presence of indicators for granted it can be a blessing and a curse. Good bright signal lights, easy to see. Poorly or carelessly used, an invitation to a collision. Take your pick!

 

[Biker man]

I tend to indicate as habit unless there's a specific reason not to. For example, if turning left just after another junction where an early signal could mislead someone into pulling out. Got beeped by someone behind because I then indicated "late" as he saw it but it was better than t-boning the car waiting at the junction before my lay-by.

On the bike I am reticent about signalling left as it tends to encourage some clown behind to overtake then turn the corner beside me.

So I am of the "always indicate unless.." camp rather than "avoid indicating unless.." which seems to be the implied rule for self styled "advanced drivers" who then avoid indicating for mere pedestrians

I was going to turn left into a garden centre but the tarmac was rough so decided against a woman in a 4x4 following me in blew her horn I asked what the problem was as she was coming in behind me,got a mouthful of expletives charming woman.

 

[boydj]

I tend to indicate as habit unless there's a specific reason not to. For example, if turning left just after another junction where an early signal could mislead someone into pulling out. Got beeped by someone behind because I then indicated "late" as he saw it but it was better than t-boning the car waiting at the junction before my lay-by.

On the bike I am reticent about signalling left as it tends to encourage some clown behind to overtake then turn the corner beside me.

So I am of the "always indicate unless.." camp rather than "avoid indicating unless.." which seems to be the implied rule for self styled "advanced drivers" who then avoid indicating for mere pedestrians

When I did my cycle trainer course we had a discussion on signalling when cycling. I made the point that my regular commute had taught me not to signal left except as a courtesy to a vehicle waiting to exit the road I was turning into when there were no oncoming or following vehicles to be concerned about. Of course on the first practice run out after that, the person at the front signalled a left and an oncoming car cut across and caused some panic braking in the group.

 

[oldwheels]

When driving there are several junctions I have to negotiate where it is impossible to see if there another vehicle likely to just cut he corner as so many do. I therefore always signal in advance even if nothing can be seen.
Cycling I used road position which gave information to those who could see what I intended to do unless changing lanes with another vehicle behind when I did signal and could check my mirror to make sure they were paying attention.

 

[All uphill]

I hope this is not too far off topic:

I regularly use a traffic light controlled junction where motorised vehicles may turn left or right only; as a cyclist I have the option of going straight ahead into a cycle route. What hand signal can I use to keep car drivers informed of my intentions?

I've tried a Hitler salute, which is a bit weird, but probably is the clearest.

 

[CanucksTraveller]

I hope this is not too far off topic:

I regularly use a traffic light controlled junction where motorised vehicles may turn left or right only; as a cyclist I have the option of going straight ahead into a cycle route. What hand signal can I use to keep car drivers informed of my intentions?

I've tried a Hitler salute, which is a bit weird, but probably is the clearest.

Position yourself so that you're dead central, and don't signal at all would be my suggestion.

 

[Drago]

I've tried a Hitler salute, which is a bit weird, but probably is the clearest.

Should be ok if you're heading in the direction of Poland.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Just been out to get something - after reading this thread


looks like I don;t signal quite as much as I thought - must do better!!!

As far as sitting in a left/right only turn lane happily signalling away is concerned - it can be helpful if people are not local - or, as happens sometimes - the queue for the lights/roundabout goes past the paint on the road that is the only indication that the turn is limited
This used to be a particular problem on a route into Liverpool - some traffic lights had a left turn only lane and some had a right turn only lane - no indication except paint on the road and that was quite close to the lights
I could never remember which was which - but the people who use it every day expected everyone to know!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Not just you as they are part of/next to those awful uber bright blinding LED lights (especially SUVs)

At least they don't flash 😊

 

[MichaelW2]

I only look in the mirror when somebody is behind me. Why bother looking if there is no one to see.

 

[Threevok]

I only look in the mirror when somebody is behind me. Why bother looking if there is no one to see.

How do you know there's no one there, unless you look?

 

[ColinJ]

How do you know there's no one there, unless you look?

I suspect that there is a subtle point hidden in that post somewhere...