Titanium Itch

[Grant Fondo]

Good morning. I used to spend a lot of time around these parts, but have been absent for a while. Hope you’ve all been well.
Anyway, I‘m back because I have an itch, and hopefully you guys can help 😊

You’ll be stunned to learn that contrary to appearances, my 40th birthday is around the corner. Ive therefore decided that I must purchase a new Titanium bike, but it should replace my current commuter/tourer/winter steed rather than the carbon.
To set the scene I built up a Cervelo S2 frameset a few years back, so while it’s not mega current, it still looks great and rides well, so I’m happy with it for Sunday best for the time being. The winter bike is a 10 year old Boardman CX that’s been smashing, but is ready for retirement.

Budget is flexible. If I decide I want something I don’t have the cash for then I’ll save up for a bit longer. This bike is about getting it right, not just getting something.

Gravel is a fly in the ointment here. Initially I didn’t want it because I don’t ride on gravel. But it feels as though the marketing boffins have set out to convince the world that they need a gravel bike, and subsequently they are everywhere... and are the latest models with the latest tech. Maybe it’s just me, but looking at standard audax/tourer type models which are now a couple of years old makes it feel like I’m shopping for an iPhone 4.

Let’s break this down to some actual questions.
Has anyone looked at the J Guillem Orient, the Enigma Etape or the Van Nicholas Yukon Disc?

These are the ones that have tickled my fancy so far... with an Ultegra build and costing under £4K.
I’m 82% sure I don’t need to drop an extra £1k on Di2 or eTap - or that could always come later.

What about their gravel equivalents, the J Guillem Atalaya, the Enigma Escape, or the Van Nicholas Rowtag?
Do these offer the same or more? Or will they be less refined on the road? Anyone tried or bought?

What else should I be looking at?

All advice gratefully received, as always.

Some nice bikes in that mix. You are only 40 once, i treated myself to a carbon Synapse for mine, happy days! Good luck and happy b'day

 

[Globalti]

There used to be a small firm called Starley in Cheshire, a buddy of mine has one of their bikes in stainless steel and it rides super smooth.

Edit: they still exist: https://www.starleybikes.com/

 

[Soltydog]

my 40th birthday is around the corner. Ive therefore decided that I must purchase a new Titanium bike,

Has anyone looked at the J Guillem Orient, the Enigma Etape or the Van Nicholas Yukon Disc?

For my 50th I treated myself to a new Ti bike. I wanted that special once in a lifetime bike I already had a Van Nic Ventus, which is a lovely bike & I still love it, bought new for £1400 I consider it one of the best bargains I've ever got & it started my love affair with Ti.

I looked at a few Ti bikes, Ribble & PX didn't do one large enough, so they were out straight away. Spa's own didn't do it for me, nice enough, but not special enough. I ended up going for the Enigma Etape & don't regret it for one minute, wasn't sure I could bring myself to part with that much cash on a bike, but after a visit to the factory & a test ride down to Eastbourne & Beachy Head where I couldn't stop grinning like a Cheshire Cat, I knew it was the right bike. I wanted a few custom changes too & this was no problem at Enigma, the service there was excellent & certainly worth a visit. Since buying it a LBS has started selling Guillem bikes & they do look very nice, but I try not to spend too much time looking at them, I must resist

 

[MrGrumpy]

Hmm my 50th next year and Im finding myself also thinking about a nice Ti frame ?! Well got a year to think about it

 

[Venod]

I have had several Ti bikes, its my favourite frame material, if I was looking know, this would be near the top of my list.

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBPXHURV3R8000/planet-x-hurricane-shimano-ultegra-titanium-road-bike

 

[Sniper68]

Have a look at Colina.
https://colinabikes.com/
Had I not got such a good deal on my LynskeyR480(currently 98% built see link in sig) the Colina Abanicos was top of my list.
I decided to build a Ti for my 50th but didn't get around to buying a frame-set until I was 51 Despite some savvy buying I've still spent more than i originally planned...thankfully I went for Di2 and not Etap or it would have been even more
Back to the Colina.Not cheap but I've seen a couple on the road(they are local-ish to me,Hathersage Derbys) and they are stunning
Maybe for my 60th............

 

[JhnBssll]

I trod this path last year and after exploring several options ended up ordering a customised Veturi frameset from Pilot Cycles. My lbs had just started to build a relationship with them after meeting them and trying some of their bikes at a dutch bike show so they were able to get one over for me to test ride. I was convinced very quickly and ordered a frameset with a few cusomisations and I'm still thrilled to bits with the bike today, it's a beauty to ride and the attention to detail is excellent 😊

They're incredibly flexible with their customisation, and will design you a frame to meet your requirements from the ground up if you so desire. I started with the Veturi as it was already very close to my requirements but it doesnt have the rack and fender mounts you're looking for as standard. I paid about £2.6k for a customised frameset so they're not the cheapest, but it's perfect for my needs and should last a lifetime so I consider that pretty good value in the long run

 

[lejogger]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Lots and lots to consider. Probably more confused now than I was before I posted! 😂

What about the gravel angle? What differences would I notice running say 28mm tyres on an Enigma Escape than the same on an Enigma Etape? Same for the JGuillem Orient v Atalaya?

Are there significant geometrical differences that would make road riding less efficient (due off road considerations engineered into the frame? Or are we merely talking wider clearances and broader gearing options, but everything else being equal, both would perform comparatively on the road?

I still can’t tell if it’s a genuine evolution or a marketing fad.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I have the VN Amazon Disc setup in touring mode. The frame is designed for full length cable outers.

I currently have the mudguards off and 35mm “Gravel” tyres front and back. I reckon it’d take 40mm front maybe more and there is space for wider tyres at back as well. I still have the rack mounted as it has a rear dynamo light attached. The rear rack is a stainless steel one which blends well with the titanium.

As it’s currently built it’s about 12kg. Not super light but losing the rack would lose almost a kg. Plus the saddle is leather. So 200g to lose there if I got a plastic saddle. It has robust reliable wheels with front being dynamo. It used to be my long distance audax bike till I got the recumbent. So you could get it down to just under 10kg with different component choices. If weight matters to you. For me it doesn’t matter all that much. It’s a small percentage of the overall weight.

Certainly a versatile bike and rides well. Most gravel bikes won’t see more than canals, easy bridleways, and forest tracks. So anything with wider clearances will do the job. So don’t dismiss bikes designed for touring.

 

[Sniper68]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Lots and lots to consider. Probably more confused now than I was before I posted! 😂
What about the gravel angle?
I still can’t tell if it’s a genuine evolution or a marketing fad.

I have a Boardman CX Comp.What are the differences between my bike,marketed as a Cyclo-cross and a "Gravel" bikeAs far as I can see the latest "Gravel" bikes are 1X with MTB style gearing but apart from that I see no real difference other than marketing BS
It sells bikes though.........
My Boardman is just as happy,albeit a bit slower,on the road as it is off road.I haven't ridden any "gravel" only BWs etc that I used to ride on the MTB and in all but the extreme stuff it's coped fine.For me "Gravel" bikes are just the modern equivalent of old rigid MTBs but plenty seem to have bought into the whole "Gravelleur" thing

 

[MrGrumpy]

Bigger clearances , disc brakes can sometimes fit 700c or 650b wheels. Far removed from the original canti braked rigid MTB of the late 80s, early 90s !

 

[Sniper68]

Bigger clearances , disc brakes can sometimes fit 700c or 650b wheels. Far removed from the original canti braked rigid MTB of the late 80s, early 90s !

Not really.
Just 30 years of technology.The basic principal is the same....and the purpose is the same it's just been rebadged "Gravel" from "ATB"
Specialized are offering a "flat bar" gravel bike for 2021...basically a rigid MTB...or rather what a 80/90s rigid ATB would have looked like had discs/11-speed etc been around then
I'm not falling for it.Been there,done that,woke up

 

[Shadow]

I didn’t want it because I don’t ride on gravel.

Then why bother looking at 'gravel' versions of Enigma, Van Nic etc.? IMO, gravel bikes were developed, mainly, for the north american market. North america has thousands and thousands of unmetalled roads where gravel bikes will perform much better than other bikes. Since then the marketing folk have taken over.
I think if you find a ti 'tourer' style that you are comfortable with, then you you will be one very, very happy bunny.
I did no research and am as happy today as the day I collected mine 8 years ago (enigma). Don't all ti owners say the same?!
Talk to the producers, ride if you can - any CC -ers near you with ti you could borrow? Any ti LBS folk or makers near you?
Have a long and good scratch!!

 

[lejogger]

Then why bother looking at 'gravel' versions of Enigma, Van Nic etc.? IMO, gravel bikes were developed, mainly, for the north american market. North america has thousands and thousands of unmetalled roads where gravel bikes will perform much better than other bikes. Since then the marketing folk have taken over.
I think if you find a ti 'tourer' style that you are comfortable with, then you you will be one very, very happy bunny.
I did no research and am as happy today as the day I collected mine 8 years ago (enigma). Don't all ti owners say the same?!
Talk to the producers, ride if you can - any CC -ers near you with ti you could borrow? Any ti LBS folk or makers near you?
Have a long and good scratch!!

Thanks Shadow. Appreciate your response. My best pal has an Etape... I’m sure he’d let me have a go.

I guess I’m just looking at the Etape and thinking that this is a frame that has remained virtually unchanged for ten years. Is the gravel or adventure frame a development that I should be buying into. If I go for an Etape, is it equivalent to buying a Walkman just as the discman arrived on the scene. Or is it a minidisc?!

I suppose I’m trying to future proof, and avoid buying something that might not exist in a couple of years, because the gravel bike does everything the tourer did and more. The traditional ‘do everything’ bike superseded by a new type of ‘do everything‘ bike.

Ultimately, it’s a lot of money, and I’m just being thorough.

 

[JhnBssll]

Completely understand your reasoning, and I went through a similar thought process. I'm not convinced a road frame and 650b gravel frame have close enough geometry to build a good enough all rounder but could be wrong! I'm considering building some 650b wheels for mine as I have plenty of tyre clearance but I'm worried about bb height and ground clearance