Touch screen's in Cars Yes/No?

[Milkfloat]

Very true but the point I was trying to make is that your RAV4 would be even more economical if it was 500kg lighter. Cars have generally got to be much, much heavier over the years which has negated a lot of the progress made in designing more efficient engines.

A large part of why they are bigger and heavier is due to additional safety features.

 

[slowmotion]

A large part of why they are bigger and heavier is due to additional safety features.

…...but the heavier they are, the more you need safety features to protect yourself against their increased kinetic energy.....

 

[Milkfloat]

No one has died in the UK while travelling an XC90 of either generation since the model was introduced.

Ahem - https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/local-news/m1-crash-man-70-dies-3394010

Remember Harry Dunn and the Diplomats wife - that was an XC90, still at least she was ok.

 

[raleighnut]

A large part of why they are bigger and heavier is due to additional safety features.

For the feckin eejit driving it.

 

[tyred]

A large part of why they are bigger and heavier is due to additional safety features.

Safer for the person inside it only. A lighter car will stop or change direction faster than a heavier car and no amount of airbags will or crumple zones will do very much for the pedestrian/cyclist/motorcyclist wiped out by a dozy driver. A lighter car will have less kinetic energy and do less damage to whatever it hits.

Part of me wonders if people who buy the biggest, heaviest car they can afford purely because they feel it is safer is really just an extension of the increasing selfishness of people in society who are only interested in protecting themselves and don't care about the increased risks and increased pollution they are inflicting on those poor peasants outside the car.

I know it's not what the majority of society want but I honestly believe we need to seriously reduce use of ALL cars, especially in urban areas (I don't care if they are electric - they still cause congestion and added danger for pedestrians and cyclists) and we should be pushing towards less SUVs and big saloons towards lighter and more economical cars. I don't care if many modern big cars can be more economical than a Citreon 2CV. A modern design of similar size and weight to a 2CV with a small, modern engine would be way more efficient but I guess people wouldn't buy it as the X5 is more stylish.

 

[gzoom]

Anyone who thinks the roads were safer for either drivers or cyclists back in the time of 2CVs should have a look at proper data rather than ranting on.

UK roads have never been safer, despite there been more cars on the road.

Active driver safety aids will continue to improve the numbers.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7615/

 

[gzoom]

Part of me wonders if people who buy the biggest, heaviest car they can afford purely because they feel it is safer is really just an extension of the increasing selfishness of people in society who are only interested in protecting themselves

I didn't realise wanting to keep your family safe was a crime??

I had the pleasure of been hit by a driver who decided he didn't need to stop for give way signs.

The force of the impact was big enough to send my 3 ton SUV into a 180 degree spin into the kerb which shattered 20inch alloys like they were made out of plastic.

The impact point on my car was exactly where my daughter sits, luckily I was on my way to nursery so she wasn't in the car, and the passenger cell did its job perfectly, the doors still opened despite the hit.

The force of the impact also cracked the chassis, had I been in a 2CV I suspect I will have ended up been rolled like a toy straight through the nearby fences/metal railings.

Feel free to drive around in a 2CV if you wish, but l'll be keeping my SUV.

 

[icowden]

Of course, it Teslas are so safe, how come people do die while travelling in them? No one has died in the UK while travelling an XC90 of either generation since the model was introduced.

Doubtless the Tesla deaths are in large part due to over excitement at how prehistoric the safer models feel in comparison.

Ok, lets start here.

Tesla's in the world >1 million. Deaths to date 142, of which 61 were occupants in the vehicle.
XC90 about 700,000 since 2002 but no deaths.

XC90 definitely looks a better bet. Great safety record for the occupants. No data available about non-occupants though. The next question is well, how many miles have all the XC90s driven? Again, I couldn't find any data for this. For Tesla of course, we know that in 2018 they hit 1 billion miles of autopilot data (every car whenever it is driven sends autopilot telemetry data back to Tesla even if autopilot isn't used). The projected figure for miles by the end of 2020 was 2.3 billion miles. That's a lot of miles, but only 61 occupant deaths.

Not only that but Tesla is the only vehicle where it actively learns all the time. Tesla will analyse each of those deaths and work out what the adjustment would be to the neural network that powers autopilot to try to make sure it doesn't happen again. So they get safer.

If you want to know about Tesla deaths (occupants and bystanders) just visit https://www.tesladeaths.com/ - someone is running a website to track the topic.

If you want to understand how Tesla use customers to help train Autopilot, this is an interesting read:-
https://cleantechnica.com/2020/04/27/tesla-autostopping-7-notes-on-new-autopilot-feature/

 

[icowden]

What about the accidents actually caused by autopilot, where it has wrested control from the driver?

that would be none. Autopilot can't do that Hal.

 

[icowden]

Every time I get in a Tesla with it's dangerous touchscreen and inability to travel 900 miles without stopping to refill with electrons I feel like I've gone back in time.

But i'll yell you the biggest problem with Tesla - the smug, self satisfied attitude of the people that buy them. I cant wait until mrs D's Polestar 2 arrives - now that has been unleashed suddenly none is interested in the overpriced, ageing, low tech Tesla rubbish. Who wants a car made in a tent by a man who calls people he falls out with a "Pedo"?

I'm not sure any car can travel 900 miles without stopping to refill. The Polestar looks nice. Very similar to a model 3 but I can't see the benefit myself given that it doesn't have the key selling point of a Tesla - autopilot.

 

[screenman]

Absolutely none of today's bland, overweight, bloated SUVs.

Yes, they have much higher overall levels of roadholding and are safer. But safer for whom? The appalling visibility is dangerous for cyclists, pedestrians and motorcyclists, the added weight mean they use more resources than a lighter car would and causes increased pollution. But who cares if we endanger people and cause even more pollution just so we can impress the neighbours and keep little Jimmy safe on the half mile journey to school.

Technology should have brought us smaller, lighter cars with incredible fuel economy. Instead the advances in engine design and aerodynamics have been swallowed up by bloated overweight cars.

It's not just about tail pipe emissions either as the heavy car will need more energy to manufacture and will wear tyres and brakes more and release dangerous particles.

There are plenty of smaller new cars on the market, you did not answer my question though.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

For Tesla of course, we know that in 2018 they hit 1 billion miles of autopilot data (every car whenever it is driven sends autopilot telemetry data back to Tesla even if autopilot isn't used).

We seem to have gone off topic, but these things happen, this number staggered me, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near that, I didn't realise there were that many Tesla's on the road, quite a rare sight around here. So I started looking at a few numbers, they claim that by the end of 2019 that 891,000 units were on the road, that they delivered 367,500 in 2019 alone, 1,000 cars a day? What kind of factory can do that? How much critical earth's resources are being gobbled up daily? Anyway back to the point, so we now have 523,500 cars on the road at the end 2018 which have combinedly done 1,000,000,000 miles, so each car has only done 1,910 miles. As you say there is no mileage number for the XC90, but I find it highly unlikely to as low as 2,000 per car.

So in conclusion does that mean Tesla's are safer as they don't go anywhere, which if that is the case we should encourage their ownership as it will clear the roads.

 

[icowden]

So in conclusion does that mean Tesla's are safer as they don't go anywhere, which if that is the case we should encourage their ownership as it will clear the roads.

Nope it means that in terms of self driving AI information they have far more information than anyone else on the planet. So full self driving automation is coming and probably faster than we think it will, at which point it won't matter whether there is an idiot in the car fiddling with the touch screen :-)

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Nope it means that in terms of self driving AI information they have far more information than anyone else on the planet. So full self driving automation is coming and probably faster than we think it will, at which point it won't matter whether there is an idiot in the car fiddling with the touch screen :-)

But until we get to that point touch screen should not be fitted to cars, glad we finally agree on something.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Absolutely none of today's bland, overweight, bloated SUVs.

Yes, they have much higher overall levels of roadholding and are safer. But safer for whom? The appalling visibility is dangerous for cyclists, pedestrians and motorcyclists, the added weight mean they use more resources than a lighter car would and causes increased pollution. But who cares if we endanger people and cause even more pollution just so we can impress the neighbours and keep little Jimmy safe on the half mile journey to school.

Technology should have brought us smaller, lighter cars with incredible fuel economy. Instead the advances in engine design and aerodynamics have been swallowed up by bloated overweight cars.

It's not just about tail pipe emissions either as the heavy car will need more energy to manufacture and will wear tyres and brakes more and release dangerous particles.

^^^^ This mostly.