Trek recalls over 1.5 million bikes

[Hyslop]

You would think so but thanks to a couple of ambulance chaser lawyers in the US, we are now burdened with fork drop-outs with "lawyers lips" to safeguard those who should fall by the evolutionary wayside. Those horrible things make a mockery of quick release.

I do like the phrase"fall by the evolutionary wayside"

 

[Yellow Saddle]

It does state that with proper operation, there should be no problem..... From what I've read, I think its when you try to "close" the qr the wrong way or don't even attempt to close it or forget it (who hasn't seen someone who doesn't know about qrs do that? Or tried to ride a bike and then realized the qr isn't tightened from the last time you put it on?*) and then if it works loose it can go into the brake disc. I'm actually torn on this one -seems like a small thing to not allow a qr to not to do this, but at the same time, you do wonder if someone doesn't use it properly, where do you stop? But I'm tending towards this being a very appropriate recall because I think its reasonable to assume that someone will not tighten the qr appropriately either intentionally or unintentionally (particularly if they are new to cycling) -and speccing the qr to avoid it at least going into the brake disc seems a very reasonable precaution to me (just my opinion).

Lawyer lips? Really? I've got so used to them, I don't even think about them, and I can never recall having a problem with them or even thinking they are any trouble..... They seem like a pretty good idea to me -certainly if you forget to tighten your qr. Or maybe all of my bikes that have had them have been shallow ones?

*for full disclosure, I think this has may be happened to me twice in my life, if that. I do know when it did happen, I knew immediately the wheel felt loose and I didn't even attempt to ride it. FWIW, I'm now of the mindset that a wheel should never, ever be placed on a frame unless it's tightened up -and if it isn't tightened up, keep it out of the frame. Force of habit with me now.

I also think it is an appropriate recall and obviously my comments are in jest. I think the solution on entry level bikes where QR mistakes are very common, is to make the disc solid. Reason being, people can still swap quick releases and still mess them up, no matter what. Perhaps they should even bolt the wheels on. I'm always amazed at the ignorance regarding quick releases and their closing technique but I do lament the loss of proper QR function so that the industry can pander to the lowest common denominator.

Where I don't agree with you is on the loss of QR function. With lawyers lips on there, each and every closure requires re-adjustment of the nut. This is a two-handed action. One to hold the QR so that it doesn't rotate and one to turn the nut. Further, It may require a second try because there is no indexed stop for the nut in the right position. this has to achieved with trial and error. I know most people don't even think about it anymore, but consider the action and you'll see what I mean. Without lawyer's lips, the action is precise (you adjust the QR once and leave it in that position until you remove it from the wheel for whatever reason) and one-handed.

Now, here's the problem. Because each and every wheel fitment requires a re-adjustment, errors are made, but people get away with them because of the lawyer's lips. These save your bacon. Now comes the disc brake problem and the lawyer's lip is actually the enemy. You could get away with a bad installation previously, but now the loose QR will get caught in the disc and make you endo. This problem is not unique to Trek, watch the others follow suit or come up with other solutions. This phrase was copied from the WTB website ages ago and I used to print a version of it and give it to my novice customers:

From WTB Website:

WARNING: Securely clamping the wheel with a cam action retention device takes considerable
force. If you can fully close the cam lever without wrapping your fingers around the fork blade for
leverage, the lever does not leave a clear imprint in the palm of your hand, and the serrations on the
wheel fastener do not emboss the surfaces of the dropouts, the tension is insufficient. Open the lever;
turn the tension adjusting nut clockwise a quarter turn; then try again

My approach was that education is better than ignorance. Other than Shimano's excellent user manual on its QRs (taped to each and every quick release), I have not seen any of this elsewhere. The pigeons have come home to roost, so to speak.

However, I think the days of the QR are over. In mountain biking the through axle is taking over and for good reason too. Disc brakes produce a sliding moment on the wheel, pushing it out of the drop-out. For now lawyers lips are the only protection that stands in the way of in-flight wheel ejection if you don't heed the warning above. That is obviously not good enough anymore. Luckily, a well-designed TA is quick to install.

 

[the_mikey]

FWIW, I'm now of the mindset that a wheel should never, ever be placed on a frame unless it's tightened up -and if it isn't tightened up, keep it out of the frame. Force of habit with me now.

I think the less obsessive/enthusiastic cyclist might just not recognise when their QR is loose, just the same as me getting into my work van this morning, I don't know if there's a problem and I'm not very likely to spend an hour checking and tightening bolts to find out. Most people will just have the wheels that came with their bike and won't remove or adjust them arbitrarily for any reason, why would they?

 

[KneesUp]

Some people are just mechanically inept. There are a few kids I see when I drop my daughter at school who have QR on parts of their scooters where the lever has clearly been used as a flappy wing-nut. I honestly don't understand how anyone can be so uninquisitve not to realise what it is supposed to do.

That said, a lever that can stick in the disc is a huge design flaw. Even simple mechanisms fail from time to time.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Some people are just mechanically inept. There are a few kids I see when I drop my daughter at school who have QR on parts of their scooters where the lever has clearly been used as a flappy wing-nut. I honestly don't understand how anyone can be so uninquisitve not to realise what it is supposed to do.

I've seen a few people on expensive road bikes do that. It beggars belief that people can be so technically incompetent.

 

[ColinJ]

I've seen a few people on expensive road bikes do that. It beggars belief that people can be so technically incompetent.

As I mentioned above, I witnessed it on Saturday. The truth is that some people do not have a clue about mechanical things. I can't see why they have such problems, but they do.

I met a person once who told me that he had no sense of rhythm but I didn't believe him. I clapped out a simple rhythm and got him to try to replicate it - da da dada da, dada dada dada da. Nope, he couldn't do it - he must have tried 20 times, and failed each time!

Obviously, anybody can learn how to use a QR if they are shown enough times and keep practicing until they have mastered it. Many of us work it out at a glance. Others take one or two attempts using trial and error. Other people make it seem like really hard work, so they need to be told forcefully how important it is to learn how to do it properly.

 

[ayceejay]

Perhaps a general cull of the stupid people might not be a bad idea anyway - the rest of us can divide up their stuff and the world might be a safer place.

Unfortunately, historically speaking, moves like this are usually instigated by really stupid people.

 

[oldroadman]

There are some who, if QR was replaced with old style track nuts, would probably not work out how to use the correct spanner/fail to tighten correctly/crossthread. The possibilities are limitless. Which is why we have a lawyer for about every 300 people in UK, and (I'm told) one for every 100 in US. Which says something about society and personal responsibility.

 

[jowwy]

why not put the quick release on the opposite side to the disc......no need to worry then

 

[MichaelW2]

A file is your friend.

Lonely and sore.

 

[Nigeyy]

Well all I can say is that I haven't noticed a loss of qr functionality..... I just do it without thinking about it -I think you may be over complicating things! Maybe pros need those extra precious seconds... I don't

Where I don't agree with you is on the loss of QR function. With lawyers lips on there, each and every closure requires re-adjustment of the nut. This is a two-handed action...

Now, here's the problem......

 

[Nigeyy]

There are people who are just mechanically clueless..... I do all my own work on my bikes and car (well, almost everything, only thing I haven't done is strip a gear box down and rebuild), and yes, you see some people who have absolutely no mechanical aptitude. I know some people who think replacing front brake disc pads in a car can be a very complicated job....

But in all fairness, I think we all have our own strengths and weaknesses. For example, I'm probably one of those people who can't imitate or clap out a rhythm most others can (see other post). I know I'm very musically inept. Of course if you can do something easily, you tend to think it is easy -and that's not always the case!

Another case in point: gears. It seems some people just don't get the concept at all! This amazes me... well, until I'm asked to clap out the rhythm to a song

I've seen a few people on expensive road bikes do that. It beggars belief that people can be so technically incompetent.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

why not put the quick release on the opposite side to the disc......no need to worry then

ON suspension bikes there's a great big rebound adjuster in the way. On other suspension forks the drop-out is recessed in such a way that the QR can only fit on the left. They could make it work though if they move the rebound adjuster and create right-handed QRs.

 

[Smokin Joe]

You don't need any mechanical competence to do up a quick release lever. Anyone who can't is either too bone idle to learn or a retard. What do they do when they need a P, piddle down the inside if their trouser leg? Or perhaps they actually bothered to learn to undo a zip.

 

[Rickshaw Phil]

Out of curiosity I've just had a quick look at my brother's Trek. It's a rim brake model so not part of the recall, but seems to have one of the affected skewers which will go back far enough in the open position to easily go into the spokes of the front wheel.

Hmmm.... Not ideal. Good job I showed him how to adjust them properly