Truck drivers forum perspective of cyclist fatality.

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Brandane

Brandane

Legendary Member
Location
Costa Clyde
Its not just undertaking HGV/LGV's. Its also the legal passing of such vehicles, and being passed by them.
You're in the left-hand lane, a lorry in a right turn only lane indicating a left turn, which way is it going to go. If you're already alongside in the correct lane(for your direction of travel) where do you go when the lorry swings left?
If the lorry is indicating left, you have to assume it's turning left! Sometimes they have to do that from the right lane if the turn is particularly tight. They should really cover both lanes to try and make that intention clear.
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
This might not go down well, but what I see time and time again on similar threads on this site is the outright poo pooing of any idea that perhaps cyclists could do more to help themselves. There are a vociferous element who keep batting the ball back into the haulage industry court. The same ones who see no problem with cycling in the dark on public roads with no lights; apparently because drivers should be able to see them anyway. Try picking them out in the mirror of an artic, the back end of which is over 50' back from the mirror. Factor in some rain on the mirror glass and it's impossible to see anything that isn't properly illuminated.
The basic design of lorries isn't going to change any time soon. The attitude of some cyclists who think it's ok to come up their nearside is the main thing that needs to change. What about cyclists who end up on the nearside because a lorry has overtaken them? In that case the driver will surely know they are there as he has seen them as he passed them.
I don't disagree with you, I do get a similar impression myself sometimes. I posted on a thread recently that I don't especially like being next to large HGVs in the car, never mind on the bike! I've also posted in this thread that i think road safety is the responsibility of all users.
Whilst I'm sure that basic design could change relatively easily if the will of the industry was there, what do you think could be done about cyclists coming up the inside?

Edit: just to add that I've made a number of suggestions in this thread and only one of them concerned basic HGV design.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
If the lorry is indicating left, you have to assume it's turning left! Sometimes they have to do that from the right lane if the turn is particularly tight. They should really cover both lanes to try and make that intention clear.
By which time you're on the left-hand side, in the correct lane.
Even assuming you know where they're going, where do you go when they start turning?
 

Shut Up Legs

Down Under Member
Bill haulage insurers for the economic costs of road KSIs.
Won't the haulage companies then do what someone's already mentioned on this thread? In other words, when their insurance premiums rise, they'll simply pass the cost on to their customers, instead of making an attempt to fix any safety issue. Fixing any safety issue will just be considered too difficult. Oh yes, they'll no doubt go through the motions of analysing and 'fixing' any safety issues, but will they really do anything about it, given that it costs money to do so?

(Apologies for my cynicism)
 
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This might not go down well, but what I see time and time again on similar threads on this site is the outright poo pooing of any idea that perhaps cyclists could do more to help themselves. There are a vociferous element who keep batting the ball back into the haulage industry court. The same ones who see no problem with cycling in the dark on public roads with no lights

The reason truck drivers are concentrated on are because:

1/

Unlit cyclists feature in just 2% of ksi rtcs

2/

It's lorry drivers who are doing the killing.

Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on where the danger comes from.
 

Leodis

Veteran
Location
Moortown, Leeds
I honestly think the boris bike is and was a bad idea. Having people with no cycling experience on the worlds worst roads on bikes was asking for trouble, its tough enough for experienced cyclists to stay alive on UK roads. In Leeds I have seen a cyclist on a Uni loan bike all over the place, I pulled up along side and asked him to use the path as he was going to get himself killed (he was carrying shopping on the handlebars as well with no lights).
 
I honestly think the boris bike is and was a bad idea. Having people with no cycling experience on the worlds worst roads on bikes was asking for trouble, its tough enough for experienced cyclists to stay alive on UK roads. In Leeds I have seen a cyclist on a Uni loan bike all over the place, I pulled up along side and asked him to use the path as he was going to get himself killed (he was carrying shopping on the handlebars as well with no lights).
Nope. Tourists in London often killed I'm afraid. Saw one right outside my office. Looked left and crossed road. Lorry came from right. Stood no chance. Boris bikes seem to have a pretty good track record. Health Benefits are worth it.
 
I honestly think the boris bike is and was a bad idea. Having people with no cycling experience on the worlds worst roads on bikes was asking for trouble

Not true, ksi collisions involving Boris bikes are incredibly rare. In fact, counter-intuitively, Boris bikes have a LOWER ksi collision rate than "normal" riders. This bears out the idea that more cyclists = safer roads, encourage cycling and the collision rate goes down. Riders on Boris bikes are safer than the rest of us!
 

Leodis

Veteran
Location
Moortown, Leeds
Nope. Tourists in London often killed I'm afraid. Saw one right outside my office. Looked left and crossed road. Lorry came from right. Stood no chance. Boris bikes seem to have a pretty good track record. Health Benefits are worth it.

A quick Google search says now two deaths, 365 accidents & 12 serious (as of Feb 2013 so much higher now). I think hire bikes have a place, just not on city roads.
 
A quick Google search says now two deaths, 365 accidents & 12 serious (as of Feb 2013 so much higher now). I think hire bikes have a place, just not on city roads.

This is the single most common mistake when debating the safety of cycling. "The accident rate tells us!" But it doesn't, otherwise Amsterdam would be considered "dangerous".
 

deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Won't the haulage companies then do what someone's already mentioned on this thread? In other words, when their insurance premiums rise, they'll simply pass the cost on to their customers, instead of making an attempt to fix any safety issue. Fixing any safety issue will just be considered too difficult. Oh yes, they'll no doubt go through the motions of analysing and 'fixing' any safety issues, but will they really do anything about it, given that it costs money to do so?

(Apologies for my cynicisim)
If it were done crudely, yes, I believe you're right. There would have to be incentives to make safe vehicles, and vehicles fully equipped with all effective safety devices, cheaper. A safe vehicle should be cheaper to run than an unsafe one, and I was thinking of using insurance as a means of applying the different costs - costs which reflect more realistically the social price paid - to operators.

Another idea might be to make the Health and Safety at work laws apply to the road, as this is in effect the truck's place of work. Under HS laws, as I understand it, you have an equal responsibility towards self and others. This responsibility is all very well as trucks crawl around the ''considerate constructors''' work site with banksmen ensuring that they're safely navigated past hurdles but to then unleash them on the roads, at higher speeds, with lower surveillance, amidst a public not usually equipped with hard hats and safety boots.....? That's the current madness.

In the end, I suppose, the aim is simply to find effective ways of getting the social cost to be reflected in the operators' costs. Along the lines of the ''polluter pays'' principle. Reduce the risk, reduce the cost.
 
A quick Google search says now two deaths, 365 accidents & 12 serious (as of Feb 2013 so much higher now). I think hire bikes have a place, just not on city roads.
As opposed to the other rates for cyclists? Is there a place for us in london too?
 

400bhp

Guru
[QUOTE 3549087, member: 9609"]It is illegal to pay less than the minimum, and there is a very good likely hood that the driver is on the minimum. If you can get 8 or 9 an hour for class one you're on a goodun[/QUOTE]
Mnimum wage and a significant material cost of haulage.

Sorry but something isn't right there.

I can't believe hgv drivers get paid minimum wage on average. It's a semi skilled job.
 
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