Truck drivers forum perspective of cyclist fatality.

[Stu Smith]

Our drivers carry 25 tonnes of Whiskey one day and the next day it could be a load of empty blue GKN pallets.
Paid exactly the same each day no matter what they are carrying..

 

[Brandane]

Off subject slightly. But there are not many new drivers coming into the industry Dare I say "Good"drivers at the moment are at a premium..

No surprise there! Who wants the grief of long and anti-social hours; sleeping in a tin box with no toilet facilities; eating whatever happens to be available; away from home most of the week; stroppy transport managers; pleading with forklift drivers to actually do their job; traffic jams; VOSA inspections; CPC; no parking available at drops/collection points; curtain slashers and overnight looters; diesel thiefs; ...... I could go on .... and all this for the princely sum of between £8.00 and £9.00 per hour plus maybe £15 "night out" money if away from home (and no, you don't get paid for rest periods!). Figures are going rates for a day shift driver based in Scotland.(Who incidentally might well find himself in central London at some part of the week, not planned at the start - nothing is. So where does he find this magical second man?).

I do agency work 3 or so days a week and suit myself what work I accept. No way would I be running around the country like some do, for the money on offer. I have a choice, others don't. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys - as they say. I exclude myself and some others from that. In my case it is a handy second income and nothing else. Which introduces another point about so called "professional drivers". What makes people so sure that just because someone drives for money, that driving is their profession? I know a lot of agency drivers who only do one shift now and again, fitting it around other work. We have passed a driving test for that class of vehicle, same as all other drivers on the road should have done.

Another point about this second man/lookout thing. I wouldn't want to be the driver having to sit and listen to some PITA all day, every day. I like to concentrate on my driving, with only the radio to listen to, and I can switch that off. Then there are the legal implications if there IS an accident where there was a second man. I'm not sure that any court will accept the drivers defence that "my second man said it was clear!". It's the drivers responsibility to make sure it is clear, not some underpaid flunky in the passenger seat.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Like playing the lottery.But one day you will lose.

Simple economics.

Talking of simple economics, who pays for the cost of the deaths? Apart from the heavy emotional pain of family and close ones, we all pay for them. The police, the ambulances, the cost of severe transport delays. So, when the next inevitable death comes along, why should all of us pay just so the construction trade can get off scot free? The simple economics is that the cost should be paid by the people incurring the expense. Simple economics.

 

[Dan B]

Our drivers carry 25 tonnes of Whiskey one day and the next day it could be a load of empty blue GKN pallets.
Paid exactly the same each day no matter what they are carrying..

Still not answering the question, perhaps I should ask it slightly differently: how much does the driver get paid to deliver 25 tonnes of whiskey and come back with blue pallets?

£40 a kilo x 25000 kg = £1000000 for the run down and (I'm assuming) no value for the run back: I don't think that doubling the wage bill from £10 to £20 per hour is going to make a massive amount of difference to the price that the consumer pays for a bottle.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

How long would it take me to get to or from work if I never passed the vehicles that are stationary or near stationary?

You say vehicles I didn't, I only said high cab, that is very few in the grand scheme of things and those already stationary at traffic lights is an even smaller proportion. What point are you trying to make with deliberate misdirection?

 

[shouldbeinbed]

How safe can you make such a large vehicle in the constraints of urban roads..
The haulage industry can put as many mirrors and cameras on the vehicle it likes,it takes seconds for a cyclist or other vehicles cars are not immune to being side swiped with a HGV to come in the blind spot whilst the HGV driver is checking his offside mirror.

More education for both Cyclist and Drivers. But there seems to be a lot of negative comments on this..Are we all that good we can't be educated on something that could save our life..
I've also put forward side sensors on the cab working on the same principle as reversing sensors..

To quote you "as in previous posts" there seems to be some opinion at least on the truck forum that all the mirrors and sensors in the world are only as good as one single person to observe them in with everything else they're required to pay attention to, I asked what apart from these which aren't working well enough to remove the risk ref the obvious flaw highlighted by a truck driver themself.

If an arms race of ineffective gadgets and mirrors is all you have to offer then it is clear that a) that money is largely being wasted by the industry & b) more/different needs to be spent/done for everyone's benefit - drivers included so as not to have a death on their conscinence through penny-pinching or inadequate design.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

You can call it misdirection if you like. I see it as narrow commercial interest holding other people to ransom because they cannot put their house in order.

I call it misdirection because you completely misrepresented what I wrote. Not all vehicles are high cab.

I'm totally on the wavelength with the truck safety issue and not putting all the onus in us on bikes.

 

[Stu Smith]

So you would quite happily pass a truck on the nearside ?

Yes frequently.

How long would it take me to get to or from work if I never passed the vehicles that are stationary or near stationary?

Every time you do this you take a calculated risk..
Why don't you take a leaf out of a truck drivers book and set off a little earlier so you don't have to take risks to arrive on time.

 

[Mugshot]

I wouldn't want to be the driver having to sit and listen to some PITA all day, every day. I like to concentrate on my driving, with only the radio to listen to, and I can switch that off.

It's a long post which I'd like to respond to properly when I have more time, but I had to pull this bit out to say that your desire for solitude and comfort is a piss poor reason to not have a second person in the cab IF it prevented a fatality.

 

[Mugshot]

Why don't you take a leaf out of a truck drivers book and set off a little earlier so you don't have to take risks to arrive on time.

Hows that working out for them?

 

[PK99]

It's a long post which I'd like to respond to properly when I have more time, but I had to pull this bit out to say that your desire for solitude and comfort is a piss poor reason to not have a second person in the cab IF it prevented a fatality.

That's an interesting "IF"

My guess is that it would cause as many as it prevented by distracting the driver. 99% of the time the role is redundant and inevitably a chatty relationship would develop resulting in driver distraction.

 

[Mugshot]

That's an interesting "IF"

My guess is that it would cause as many as it prevented by distracting the driver. 99% of the time the role is redundant and inevitably a chatty relationship would develop resulting in driver distraction.

99% of the time they probably don't need somebody in the cab with them and I don't see why a responsible HGV driver isn't capable of saying,
"Shut up a second, lets concentrate and keep an eye out here."
If they're not perhaps they shouldn't be driving HGVs.

 

[Mugshot]

Is it also possible to argue that not all HGVs should be tarred with the same brush, how do the stats add up for tippers vs skip vs artic vs flat bed etc? If there is clearly a group which is presenting more of an issue than the others then they get targetted, you never know, maybe the people that are crying that their beans may go up by a penny a can will be able to sleep easy.

 

[Mugshot]

Driver need to collect a load in Manchester where would he pick up a second man and then drop him off, Would he drop him off before he loads or does this second man stop with him until he leaves Manchester then were does he drop him off,,Then the driver is to deliver in Birmingham he picks up yet another second man so he can deliver into Birmingham does this second man wait with him? Anybody who knows haulage this could be hours or does the second man walk back to where..
The driver then needs to go back to base in Liverpool yet another second man..Who is paying for all these second men that would be needed for every HGV entering a town or City..
Do not want to sound glib but its not economically feasible.

A couple of nights ago I stood in awe, not for the first time, as I watched the ISS fly overhead. I'm quite sure that getting an extra bod in the cab of a truck is not beyond the wit of man.

 

[400bhp]

Talking of simple economics, who pays for the cost of the deaths? Apart from the heavy emotional pain of family and close ones, we all pay for them. The police, the ambulances, the cost of severe transport delays. So, when the next inevitable death comes along, why should all of us pay just so the construction trade can get off scot free? The simple economics is that the cost should be paid by the people incurring the expense. Simple economics.

Average cost of a road death is £1m

Keep trotting out "simple economics" is rather too simplistic.