Truck drivers forum perspective of cyclist fatality.

[Brandane]

It's lorry drivers who are doing the killing.

Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on where the danger comes from.

It's cyclists who are being killed.

Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on preventing them becoming victims. Self preservation tactics would be a good starting point.

 

[400bhp]

Youvee="glenn forger, post: 3549617, member: 27978"]Not true, ksi collisions involving Boris bikes are incredibly rare. In fact, counter-intuitively, Boris bikes have a LOWER ksi collision rate than "normal" riders. This bears out the idea that more cyclists = safer roads, encourage cycling and the collision rate goes down. Riders on Boris bikes are safer than the rest of us![/QUOTE]y
Youve used the word "rate" which implies a relative measurement, say per km travelled. Are these stats available split between Boris and non Boris?

 

[Mugshot]

So at the risk of over simplifying;
How do we prevent cyclists getting killed by HGVs?
We stop them riding up the inside.
How do we do that?
We can't.

Sounds like a plan.

 

[Brandane]

So at the risk of over simplifying;
How do we prevent cyclists getting killed by HGVs?
We stop them riding up the inside.
How do we do that?
We can't.

Sounds like a plan.

They can only do it for themselves. Personal responsibility, I believe it is called.

 

[Arrowfoot]

I am sure rather than wait for all the design, alteration, amendments to vehicle, rules and regulations to take place, we the cycling community can be more forthright, aggressive in educating our very own not be anywhere on the nearside of a HGV. You either are in front or back and its is matter of pacing oneself. I see it so many times and I shudder.

Its is not matter of right of way but saving lives.

 

[Mugshot]

They can only do it for themselves. Personal responsibility, I believe it is called.

And the ones that would ride up the inside even if someone was waving a red warning flag, a Darwin award maybe?
I'd rather see the responsibility shared somewhat.

 

[Rohloff_Brompton_Rider]

Mnimum wage and a significant material cost of haulage.

Sorry but something isn't right there.

I can't believe hgv drivers get paid minimum wage on average. It's a semi skilled job.

A quick google shows that they don't get min wage, in fact they seem to get paid more than nurses - which seems wrong.

 

[400bhp]

It's cyclists who are being killed.

Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on preventing them becoming victims. Self preservation tactics would be a good starting point.

It makes sense to use prevention
But not to concentrate on it. In doing so it implies there's a social acceptance that trucks have more of a right to be on the roads than cyclists and they have less responsibility to be safe.

Think serial killer on the loose in London. The public is warned to be extra vigilant but we expect the powers that be to be doing what they can to reduce the risk of another death ie by catching the killer. We wouldn't accept the powers that be shrugging their shoulders and simply saying serial killers are a fact of life.

Both trucks and cyclists have responsibilities to assess the risks and mitigate the dangers.

Unless as a society we
have come to accept the consequences of transporting things in big cities is trumped by the demands for those goods being transported?

 

[glenn forger]

It's cyclists who are being killed.

Therefore it makes sense to concentrate on preventing them becoming victims. Self preservation tactics would be a good starting point.

Why, if it's not a significant causal factor? Why start there if lack of experience is nowhere near a significant factor?

The Department of Transport reports that in 2011 there were 22 cyclist deaths per billion km (620,000,000 miles), which works out as one cycling fatality expected every 620,000,000/22 = 28,000,000 miles [see page 234 of this report, eventually found through the shambolic chaos of the government statistics web-links]. Of course Boris-bike users are not average: they are probably somewhat higher risk since in London and include inexperienced tourists, compensated by being lower risk by not being very old or young, and cycling extremely heavy and slow bikes. They also rarely wear cycle helmets, but I am not getting into that tricky area .

If we very crudely assume these factors cancel out and Boris bike trips are of average risk, then to have a fatal accident after 34,000,000 miles is, unfortunately, not surprising. In fact, very roughly, there is perhaps less than 30% chance that it would have taken this long.

http://understandinguncertainty.org/fatality-risk-boris-bikes

 

[Brandane]

Mnimum wage and a significant material cost of haulage.

Sorry but something isn't right there.

I can't believe hgv drivers get paid minimum wage on average. It's a semi skilled job.

I'll post my pay slip if you want. A typical shift for me last week:
Out of bed 0415 to be out the house for 0500. Drive 35 miles to Glasgow to start shift at 0600 (petrol cost approx £5).
Class 1 (artic) shift, drive to Aberdeen and back. Finish shift at 1545. Lose 45 minutes pay for unpaid break, despite it being a legal requirement. Drive 35 miles home, another £5 in petrol.

Pay = 9 hours at £8.50 per hour (quite a generous company, usually it's 8.00, or 7.00 if non artic, i.e. tipper!).
Gross pay = 76.50
20% tax = 15.30 (basic rate as second income).
NI = 4.20 approx
Net pay = £57
Petrol = £10

So my efforts for the day made me £47 better off, and I worked a 9hr 45min shift for that.

 

[Brandane]

So two man crewing would not be a significant additional cost then.

You better ask the haulage company that, their view may differ by the time they pay holiday pay and employers NI contribution, and whatever other hidden costs there might be in taking on another employee. They won't even employ enough drivers to cover the work, hence why agency drivers like myself fill the gaps!

 

[summerdays]

He recent discussion on this thread has been about cyclists going up the side of a lorry near junctions which is really stupid and needs an ad campaign on TV to get to more people. However that isn't the only way lorries have killed cyclists, there are deaths where the cyclist was in front of the lorry. It is not the cyclists at fault in a number of those occasions so what should be done to prevent those deaths.

I've had a couple of close misses myself and each time the lorry was behind me before they made a stupid manoeuvre.

 

[Brandane]

So two man crewing would not be a significant additional cost then.

Filshill cash and carry in Glasgow no longer employ "van boys" on cost grounds, so I'm guessing that the two man crew thing is a non starter.

Van boys were there to assist drivers with the heavy manual work involved in unloading lorries when doing shop deliveries, as their clients are usually corner shops without proper loading bays. "Hand ball" it is known as, and bloody hard graft it is! High value loads involving fags and booze too, so they helped with security. Now it's all down to the driver, with inevitable results. Robberies have sky-rocketed.

 

[Mugshot]

He recent discussion on this thread has been about cyclists going up the side of a lorry near junctions which is really stupid and needs an ad campaign on TV to get to more people. However that isn't the only way lorries have killed cyclists, there are deaths where the cyclist was in front of the lorry. It is not the cyclists at fault in a number of those occasions so what should be done to prevent those deaths.

I've had a couple of close misses myself and each time the lorry was behind me before they made a stupid manoeuvre.

Exactly, it's all shared responsibility until it comes to the sharing part, then it's not my problem guv.

 

[gavintc]

All this talk about a 2nd crewman, misses the point that the second seat in an LGV is not optimised to give good visibility. The mirrors are aligned for the driver. The seat is typically inward from the window, a 2nd man is not going to be able to see much, certainly not in the important zone, below and to the rear of the cab. And, as someone has already pointed out; legally the passenger is just a passenger - no authority to give direction.