Want to be sure about correct parts

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Im about to buy new wheel bearings for my American Classic Victory 30s. They were purchased in 2012 if that matters. These are the wheel bearings Im planning on buying. Having looked at the wheels and also measured the outer race of the front bearings (15mm), Im quite confident these are the ones I need. I dont mind paying extra so long as they actually do last longer than the crappy steel ones and ofcourse they are the correct bearings for that wheelset.
Would just like a second opinion from those who are more experienced with this sort of thing.
 
Location
Loch side.
Do NOT buy those bearings. They are a massive con and massive waste of money. The reason why your bearings don't last has been discussed here in response to your quote. There is nothing more you can do to save you the hassle of continually replacing bearings. Live with it or stop using the wheels. The bearings in your link are hybrid ceramic bearings, the worse of the worst. Hybrid meaning that they are half steel, half ceramic. The races are steel, the balls are ceramic. The ceramic balls are much harder than the races- yes. But, if the races wear, the bearing is still toast. The races will wear at the very best just as quickly as your previous bearings (them being made of the same steel) but typically quicker, thanks to the hard balls damaging the races and making them peel.

Ceramic ball bearings have no place on a bicycle at all. A bicycle is a low-tech, low-load piece of equipment. Ceramic bearings were designed for turbines, turbo chargers and other high-temperature high-speed applications where the centripetal force of the steel balls ovalise the balls, casing the races to lose contact with the balls and the bearing being ruined. This doesn't happen on your bicycle. Not even Lance's bicycle. Further, those applications will have a full ceramic bearing where the race and the ball is made from ceramic.
Ceramic bearings do carry a large marketing whammy, about as big as titatnium, nano and other BS. They also have a large profit margin. Do the thinking.

Bearings in the ACs and similar wheels fail prematurely because they are:

1) too small for the job
2) applied to the wrong problem.

The best bearing for a bicycle wheel is an angular contact bearing with adjustable races aka Shimano, Campag and other sensible companies. Cartridge bearings are easy to service because installer error is just about eliminated. Installer skill is required for cup-and-cone (angular contact bearings) that is not immediately clear to even mechanics in the field.

For GBP 100 you can buy decent wheels or have someone build you a pair of wheels to last you a lifetime.
 
Location
Loch side.
Road Cycling UK's "Review" of the wheels in question is pasted in its entirety below. It is rubbish like this that feeds the market for rubbish wheels. I've numbered and pointed out the errors and lies below the review as an illustration of what sort of drivel people write.

We brought in an American Classic Victory 30 wheelset with a view to testing equipment for the heavier rider.


.coresites.factorymedia.com%2Frcuk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2FAmericanClassicVictory30.jpg
The American Classic Victory 30
As a wheel rated for riders up to 112kg (245lb), the Classic 30 seemed a suitable choice for our 14 stone test pilot. (1)

The wheels delivered much of what we’d anticipated from our ‘first look’. (2)

Rims that are pinned rather than welded come with the risk of brake judder caused by the join. We noted the smooth finish on the rim surface of the Classic 30 and sure enough, experienced a judder-free experience when applying the pads of an Ultegra caliper to its surface. (3)

A wide flange at the rear combined with a deep section rim (30mm, hence the Victory 30) to allow American Classic to use shorter spokes, a recipe for stiffening the wheel. Our test pilot put drove some watts through them and found them up to the task. (4)

A small, but discernable lag in the engagement of the freehub body was noted before we installed the wheels, and, when ridden, the lag was, well, small but discernable. (5)

Our sole area of concern was the small bearing used in the front wheel: its longevity and the degree with which the necessarily diminutive end cap would remain securely held in the fork. (6)

The bearing has performed faultlessly during our month-long test, the minimum perhaps the owner of a £400 wheelset has a right to expect. Only a longer test would lay our concerns to rest entirely. (7)

We were, however, able to strike the only other question mark from our list: the small bearing end caps remained perfectly true in the fork even under the not inconsiderable force exerted by our test pilot. (8)

At about 1,600 grams, the Victory 30 isn’t the lightest wheel set on the market. We’re pleased to report its extra heft didn’t slow progress unnecessarily, though it’s worth noting they were tested in a Colnago C59 – hardly the weightiest of steeds. (9)

At this price point, the principal competition is likely to come from Mavic’s Ksyrium Elite, a welded rim with threaded spokes, and Fulcrum Racing’s 1,555 gram Racing Three, a wheelset with an oversized hub body at the front, in contrast to the small bearings of the Victory 30, but with a large flange only on the driveside of the rear hub. (10)

We liked the Victory 30, a good looking, free rolling wheel (11) that held firm under the weight of a large test pilot. A longer test to establish the longevity of the front bearing would allow us to recommend them wholeheartedly. (13)

1) A wheel's weight rating is an arbitrary rating and totally meaningless without some other data next to the rating. Both rim and spoke life is finite. The actual life is influenced by the weight of the rider. The heavier the rider, the quicker both will fail. The curve is not linear but exponential. By adding more spokes tot he equation you increase spoke life as well as rim life, since the spoke holes are under less stress if there are more spokes to share the load. Just about any wheel can carry a 200kg person. I fact, an average 32-spoke wheel (just one wheel) can carry about 400kgs before the spokes at the bottom go out of tension, a point where the wheel will collapse. That doesn't mean a 32-spoke wheel is suitable for Mr Fatty but that it can carry it. It's durability is a separate issue and is expressed in revolutions. A good durable wheel will last several million revolutions, a barely-capable wheel only a few hundred thousands. Ratings are useless without quoted durability. You will not find a durability rating anywhere because wheel manufacturers don't want to reveal the truth.

2) What is it with putting first look in quotes? Secondly, what does this sentence mean? What did they see that was eventually satisfied in the trial? Nothing obviously.

3) All modern rims are pinned, welded and machined. Even ACs The reviewer doesn't have a clue how rims are made and thus makes meaningless statements that falsely impresses Mr Average Joe.

4) They used a test pilot to ride the bike. Really? Anyway, shorter spokes don't make wheels stiffer. Spokes are made from metal which conforms to Hooke's law and shorter and longer spokes are all equally flexible or not. Shorter spokes provide less chance for interleaving (spoke crossings) which are required for durable wheels. It would have been more useful to note that the wheels are radially spoked. The radial spoking makes the spokes shorter by a bigger factor than a 40mm hub flange and a 30mm rim profile. Geometry is not the test pilot's strong point.

5) All freewheels will have a short lag in engagement. That's how ratchets work. Why mention this as if it is a bad thing? Obviously it sounds scientific or learned or something. It would have been far more useful if they spoke about the number of degrees between engagements or told us about the type of pawls in the freewheel and how they are accessed for servicing.

6) Some sense at last but in the wrong context. You cannot create a light wheel with big bearings. Either you have your cake or eat it. The rear bearings are equally small - this is not noted - and installed on a soft aluminium axle that quickly notches and leaves the bearing wobbly. This they did not note. It is easy to see if you understand the construction of hubs.


7) Well, they seem to think it is great that the bearings lasted one month. I am not impressed.

8) Our test pilot is now back. This time he spotted small end caps. Well, the end cap size is determined by bearing size. They can be no smaller or larger than that. The contact surface at the jamb nut (serrated bit that clamps against the fork) is more relevant and the skewer is the biggest limiter in keeping the jamb nut secure in the fork. The AC skewer is absolute rubbish and any flex will be due to that skewer. The Pilot did not even notice that.

9) It would be nice if they could do some acceleration calculations on the "heft" of these wheels. However, suffice to say that the tester Mr Tom Cruise just felt it in the seat of his pants that the wheels still accelerated satisfactory in spite of their heft. I wonder how he managed to defy physics?

10) Stupid comparisons. Yes, the Ksyrium has a welded rim - all rims are welded - and the spokes are threaded - all spokes are threaded. So what's the point? Instead of using the price-point comparison the Test Pilot strung together some technical terms and name-dropped.

11) An oversized hub body does not necessarily point to larger bearings. If the flange is oversized, it is just that. If the hub shaft is oversized, it can still house a small bearing, as they often do.

12) The hefty, powerful test pilot is back again in this paragraph and reckons the wheels are pretty. I can't argue with that but I can ask what the hell free-rolling means? Don't all wheels roll freely until you apply the brake?

13) Does the tester really think that the small bearing will eventually defy physics? Why doesn't he just make the judgment call based on the evidence at hand rather than allude that it may well turn out OK. That's dishonesty.

Utter rubbish. The bicycle press is full of nonsense like this.

Edit: Ajax Bay has kindly pointed out some errors in formatting, number and dare I say it, spelling. I'll edit for that. The content otherwise remains the same.
 
Last edited:

Levo-Lon

Guru
Op , i got a full set of front and rear wheel bearings fron SKF for about 25 quid..
just order the size stamped on the bearing..from a quality manufacturer bearing wholesale etc
 
Road Cycling UK's "Review" of the wheels in question is pasted in its entirety below. It is rubbish like this that feeds the market for rubbish wheels. I've numbered and pointed out the errors and lies below the review as an illustration of what sort of drivel people write.

We brought in an American Classic Victory 30 wheelset with a view to testing equipment for the heavier rider.


.coresites.factorymedia.com%2Frcuk%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F06%2FAmericanClassicVictory30.jpg
The American Classic Victory 30
As a wheel rated for riders up to 112kg (245lb), the Classic 30 seemed a suitable choice for our 14 stone test pilot. (1)

The wheels delivered much of what we’d anticipated from our ‘first look’. (2)

Rims that are pinned rather than welded come with the risk of brake judder caused by the join. We noted the smooth finish on the rim surface of the Classic 30 and sure enough, experienced a judder-free experience when applying the pads of an Ultegra caliper to its surface. (3)

A wide flange at the rear combined with a deep section rim (30mm, hence the Victory 30) to allow American Classic to use shorter spokes, a recipe for stiffening the wheel. Our test pilot put drove some watts through them and found them up to the task. (4)

A small, but discernable lag in the engagement of the freehub body was noted before we installed the wheels, and, when ridden, the lag was, well, small but discernable. (5)

Our sole area of concern was the small bearing used in the front wheel: its longevity and the degree with which the necessarily diminutive end cap would remain securely held in the fork. (6)

The bearing has performed faultlessly during our month-long test, the minimum perhaps the owner of a £400 wheelset has a right to expect. Only a longer test would lay our concerns to rest entirely. (7)

We were, however, able to strike the only other question mark from our list: the small bearing end caps remained perfectly true in the fork even under the not inconsiderable force exerted by our test pilot. (8)

At about 1,600 grams, the Victory 30 isn’t the lightest wheel set on the market. We’re pleased to report its extra heft didn’t slow progress unnecessarily, though it’s worth noting they were tested in a Colnago C59 – hardly the weightiest of steeds. (9)

At this price point, the principal competition is likely to come from Mavic’s Ksyrium Elite, a welded rim with threaded spokes, and Fulcrum Racing’s 1,555 gram Racing Three, a wheelset with an oversized hub body at the front, in contrast to the small bearings of the Victory 30, but with a large flange only on the driveside of the rear hub. (10)

We liked the Victory 30, a good looking, free rolling wheel (11) that held firm under the weight of a large test pilot. A longer test to establish the longevity of the front bearing would allow us to recommend them wholeheartedly. (11)

1) A wheel's weight rating is an arbitrary rating and totally meaningless without some other data next to the rating. Both rim and spoke life is finite. The actual life is influenced by the weight of the rider. The heavier the rider, the quicker both will fail. The curve is not linear but exponential. By adding more spokes tot he equation you increase spoke life as well as rim life, since the spoke holes are under less stress if there are more spokes to share the load. Just about any wheel can carry a 200kg person. I fact, an average 32-spoke wheel (just one wheel) can carry about 400kgs before the spokes at the bottom go out of tension, a point where the wheel will collapse. That doesn't mean a 32-spoke wheel is suitable for Mr Fatty but that it can carry it. It's durability is a separate issue and is expressed in revolutions. A good durable wheel will last several million revolutions, a barely-capable wheel only a few hundred thousands. Ratings are useless without quoted durability. You will not find a durability rating anywhere because wheel manufacturers don't want to reveal the truth.

2) What is it with putting first look in quotes? Secondly, what does this sentence mean? What did they see that was eventually satisfied in the trial? Nothing obviously.

3) All modern rims are pinned, welded and machined. Even ACs The reviewer doesn't have a clue how rims are made and thus makes meaningless statements that falsely impresses Mr Average Joe.

4) They used a test pilot to ride the bike. Really? Anyway, shorter spokes don't make wheels stiffer. Spokes are made from metal which conforms to Hooke's law and shorter and longer spokes are all equally flexible or not. Shorter spokes provide less chance for interleaving (spoke crossings) which are required for durable wheels. It would have been more useful to note that the wheels are radially spoked. The radial spoking makes the spokes shorter by a bigger factor than a 40mm hub flange and a 30mm rim profile. Geometry is not the test pilot's strong point.

5) All freewheels will have a short lag in engagement. That's how ratchets work. Why mention this as if it is a bad thing? Obviously it sounds scientific or learned or something. It would have been far more useful if they spoke about the number of degrees between engagements or told us about the type of pawls in the freewheel and how they are accessed for servicing.

6) Some sense at last but in the wrong context. You cannot create a light wheel with big bearings. Either you have your cake or eat it. The rear bearings are equally small - this is not noted - and installed on a soft aluminium axle that quickly notches and leaves the bearing wobbly. This they did not note. It is easy to see if you understand the construction of hubs.


7) Well, they seem to think it is great that the bearings lasted one month. I am not impressed.

8) Our test pilot is now back. This time he spotted small end caps. Well, the end cap size is determined by bearing size. They can be no smaller or larger than that. The contact surface at the jamb nut (serrated bit that clamps against the fork) is more relevant and the skewer is the biggest limiter in keeping the jamb nut secure in the fork. The AC skewer is absolute rubbish and any flex will be due to that skewer. The Pilot did not even notice that.

9) It would be nice if they could do some acceleration calculations on the "heft" of these wheels. However, suffice to say that the tester Mr Tom Cruise just felt it in the seat of his pants that the wheels still accelerated satisfactory in spite of their heft. I wonder how he managed to defy physics?

10) Stupid comparisons. Yes, the Ksyrium has a welded rim - all rims are welded - and the spokes are threaded - all spokes are threaded. So what's the point? Instead of using the price-point comparison the Test Pilot strung together some technical terms and name-dropped.

11) The hefty, powerful test pilot is back again in this paragraph and recons the wheels are pretty. I can't argue with that but I can ask what the hell free-rolling means? Don't all wheels roll freely until you apply the brake? Oversized hub body doesn't not equate to larger bearings. What part of the body is larger? The flanges?

Utter rubbish. The bicycle press is full of nonsense like this.

I bet you feel better for getting that off your chest?

:smile:

Graham
 
If you still decide to plump for those as linked, OP, can you just clarify because you say in your post that you measured up and the width on your wheels is 15 mm but the winstanley product explicitly rules out such wheels from being used with those bearings. Bb
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
Yellow Saddles post just about says it all.
A much cheaper alternative is low friction sealed bearings.
My Fulcrums when new were 'stodgy'...fast to stop freewheeling and even on the bike I could feel it slowing on slight downhills with the quite natural resistance new bearings have. Remember they're not developed for bikes, more for higher power electric motors etc where the initial resistance of its newness is easily overcome.
So I fitted (IIRC) SKF 6001 (the bearing type) -2RSL or 2RSH (the seal type) The seals are specifically designed to reduce friction...and they certainly do. My wheels instantly felt better and freewheeled a heck of a lot longer.
The cost...probably 6 or 7 quid each at the time. Ive probably done 3k miles on them, still free running and good as new.

I did consider ceramics..jist because I could, no other reason , but tried the above. I wasnt disappointed.
 
Yellow Saddles post just about says it all.
A much cheaper alternative is low friction sealed bearings.
My Fulcrums when new were 'stodgy'...fast to stop freewheeling and even on the bike I could feel it slowing on slight downhills with the quite natural resistance new bearings have. Remember they're not developed for bikes, more for higher power electric motors etc where the initial resistance of its newness is easily overcome.
So I fitted (IIRC) SKF 6001 (the bearing type) -2RSL or 2RSH (the seal type) The seals are specifically designed to reduce friction...and they certainly do. My wheels instantly felt better and freewheeled a heck of a lot longer.
The cost...probably 6 or 7 quid each at the time. Ive probably done 3k miles on them, still free running and good as new.

I did consider ceramics..jist because I could, no other reason , but tried the above. I wasnt disappointed.

Or you could have just waited till the stock bearings bedded in.
 
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Reactions: gbb
@RideLikeTheStig the write up on winstanley site says
  • Note: This kit will not work with the Micro68 or any 15mm rear hubs or Victory hubs.
wouldnt your American Classic Victory 30s. have Victory hubs ( I dont know could be different)
I found this online which may help http://www.amclassic.com/download/manuals/victory_overhaul.pdf


American Classic Rear Victory Hub Bearing Change, Cassette Body Swap and Overhaul Instructions.




There are two versions of the American Classic rear Victory road hub. Each version require different size bear
-
ings. One requires (4) 15267 bearings and the other (2) 6902 and (2) 15267 bearings. The hub must be opened to
identify what bearings are required. The bearings do not need to be removed to determine the bearing sizes. The
bearing numbers are in small print on the side of the bearing seal. Re-use the cam plate that was installed origi
-
nally in your hub. This is important for proper function and rider safet
 

gbb

Legendary Member
Location
Peterborough
Or you could have just waited till the stock bearings bedded in.
Oh absolutely, they woukd have. But I was fit and flying at the time and the stodginess was disappointing and annoying. Even my old R500 commuting wheelset felt better. Better bearings In the new Fulcrums...instant gratification at not much cost.
 
OP
OP
U

User16625

Guest
If you still decide to plump for those as linked, OP, can you just clarify because you say in your post that you measured up and the width on your wheels is 15 mm but the winstanley product explicitly rules out such wheels from being used with those bearings. Bb

The front wheel bearings are 15mm. According to that link the bearings wouldnt fit rear wheels with 15mm. My rear wheel has 17mm bearings according to the AC website.
Heres the links I used to help identify the bearings:
Front:
http://amclassic.com/download/manuals/identifying_micro_front_hub.pdf
Mine is definitely the threaded type.

Rear
http://amclassic.com/download/manuals/identifying_rear_road_hub.pdf
Didnt touch the rear wheel but upon looking at the rear hub, it corresponds to the 17mm hub mentioned.

I will take the advice given here and spend the money on better wheels. I have good experience with Mavic Aksiums on an old commuter bike so will look at some Mavics before anything else. As far as I understand so far, 17mm or less wheel bearings are not really up to the job. Im aiming for long lifespan so what sizes should I be looking to get?
 
The front wheel bearings are 15mm. According to that link the bearings wouldnt fit rear wheels with 15mm. My rear wheel has 17mm bearings according to the AC website.
Heres the links I used to help identify the bearings:
Front:
http://amclassic.com/download/manuals/identifying_micro_front_hub.pdf
Mine is definitely the threaded type.

Rear
http://amclassic.com/download/manuals/identifying_rear_road_hub.pdf
Didnt touch the rear wheel but upon looking at the rear hub, it corresponds to the 17mm hub mentioned.

I will take the advice given here and spend the money on better wheels. I have good experience with Mavic Aksiums on an old commuter bike so will look at some Mavics before anything else. As far as I understand so far, 17mm or less wheel bearings are not really up to the job. Im aiming for long lifespan so what sizes should I be looking to get?

It is moot I appreciate that if you're going to buy new wheels instead, but fwiw, I didn't find those links 100% clear so I would not have trusted them.

We can ignore anything concerned with the front hub as you were looking at sorting out the rear hub and clearly there is a distinction made. So to move onto the rear hubs, that guidance says there are four different hub types (of which two types are "Victory") and while it implies at the top of page 1 that the current Victory hub is a 17 mm and the older style one is a 15, it isn't absolutely explicit on that point. And then it goes on to show two pictures of the respective current and older Victory hubs so you can work out which hub you've got - but crucially underneath that it explicitly says you will need to take the hub apart to determine what bearing size you've got, and that different Victory hubs have different bearing sizes. From that I took it that a) it is not possible to say with certainty that the current Victory hub is always 17 mm and the older style Victory hub is always 15; and b) that you can only know for sure by opening your actual rear hub up and looking.

Which you haven't done. Even if the bearings were going to cost a tenner I would be advising you to do that. For a hundred quid, it would be absolutely essential!

I know next to nothing about wheel bearings but researching online it appears the Aksiums have one 28 mm bearing and one 22 mm one, compared with the possible 4x 17 mm bearings in the Victory hub.

One thing I don't understand is, surely a bearings durability is a function of its quality rather than its diameter? So I don't understand why a 28/22 setup would be inherently better than four 17s. Assuming the build quality of the bearings were equivalent. Anyone know the answer? Bb
 
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