What do you think will happen to the UK bike retail industry?

[wafter]

My guess is that bike shops will follow the path of tool shops.....relocate to the internet or close. I'm not sure where people will go to get their bikes fixed/serviced.

While the "traditional bike shop" is definitely struggling, I think there's definitely a rise in people specialising in just repairs / maintenance. This is evidenced by posts I see on FB from people asking for recommendations for places to get work done; with this throwing up a lot of non-shops that I'd not heard of - often one-man-bands working out of vans on-site, from small units away from main shopping areas or even home I imagine.

I actually considered trying something like this myself if I ever manage to get back to Oxford, but chances are I'd not have the space and in any case it seems that market is already well-served by folks with similar ideas. Besides, at the rate I work I'd probably have to charge £300/hr to make it work

This makes good sense as a business model - you need far less floorspace than a shop as you don't need to display large, bulky items and what stock you require is limited to spares which take up relatively little room. You don't need to be located to attract casual passing trade, meaning the cost of renting your premisis is even less.

Sunk costs are considerably less; requiring tooling which can be built up relatively gradually and re-used, while stock cost is limited to spares which are a lot cheaper than a showroom of thirty bikes. You're also less likely to get stung by timebombed stock having to be sold at discount once it's been superceded by next year's model.

The bulk of your turnover will be labour, and if you operate "by appointment" you can spend your time a lot more efficiently by fitting work in around other things, rather than sitting in an empty shop for eight hours a day waiting for someone to come and fondle something before they go off and buy it for less on the net.

While there are obviously car dealerships that do both sales and repairs, there are also a lot of smaller garages that only do repairs and there's no reason why this model shouldn't transfer to the bikes as well.


While I do sympathise with bike shops, I despise the unspoken assumption that enjoying any gear-related hobby or sport should be underpinned by constant, un-necessary, rampant, fashion-driven consumption. As usual the marketing scumbags have done an excellent job in duping many into unquestionably buying into this ultimately unsustainable mindset.

IMO like many others, marketing has inflated this industry far beyond the size it should naturally be, and if people buy fewer bikes and keep going what they have, in many ways that's a good thing - consuming less energy, fewer resources and creating less waste.

I think this is 80% of the reason my cycling has dwindled away to a handful of rides this year. Traffic just keeps on increasing and the impatience and aggression from drivers just seems to be getting worse. If our local Facebook page ever happens to mention cyclists there is the usual vitriol from nearly everyone who comments. I think it has just about put me off. My Wattbike can’t be delivered soon enough and I will try and enjoy virtual cycling instead.

Indeed -the level of acceptance of anti-cycling bias on social media is shocking. I read an article in the local paper recently from one of the local cycling advocacy groups - a harmless puff piece about cycling-related new year's resolutions. Top comment was from a bloke who apparently once got hit by a cyclist, followed by a load of bile from enraged gammons about how the paper is providing a platform for the "lefty cycling mafia" or similar.

It's utterly bizarre - when was the last time you read an innocuous article about motoring to have it spammed by people banging on about how they were once involved in an accident, or poor standard of driving?

While depressing the associated psychology fascinates me - best I can come up with is that driving has become normalised while cycling hasn't, so we're seen as the non-confimist outsider. Further, we get to enjoy benefits over the motorist (freedom in traffic, much lower running costs, improved fitness etc) that cause resentment amongst the gammonati as they're unwilling to make the sacrifices (physical exertion, exposure to the elements, lack of perceived social status) necessary to share these benefits.

I asked what steel bikes they had. "Nobody buys them anymore."

To be fair those of us who appreciate the precious ferrous are certainly in a minority and their stock is likely to reflect the areas of highest demand. In addition I think steel draws a certain informed, measured, long-termist mindset that probably doesn't generate a lot of repeat business..

No @Greasy Gilbert the reason that the big shops like Evans are struggling is the well known surge in sales over COVID. This is separate to the problems faced by small independent bike shops.
The surge created supply problems and when that was overcome retailers continued to order stock at the same level leading to overstocking when demand fell away due to rises cost of living and recession. That's why distributors have gone to wall and manufacturers have seen a downturn in sales.

On top of that you have a massive oversupply of low-end road bikes on the used market that were bought during covid, not used and people are looking to move on..

 

[bonzobanana]

We visited Evans Sheffield yesterday and it was the same, loads of stuff but no customers. It's a shame. I'm not sure what the industry can do about it.
We all need to look at ourselves when we complain about shops closing because we've caused the problem. We all want things quicker, cheaper and delivered to our feet.
If this is worth anything, I'll always go to a bike shop if I can, rather than buy online.
If you have a good bike shop nearby, cherish it.

People act like we go online for convenience but I personally think its mostly price but I realise its different for some people but I would say most people are motivated by price. If Halfords were cheaper for bike parts than online then I'll be going to Halfords. It's very easy to increase costs for online sellers compared to the high street its a political thing in how taxes are applied. If online businesses paid a lot more tax and retail shops paid less then online would be in trouble and shrink. This would create more jobs in the UK, increase the level of tax the government gets (Amazon pay very little here) and benefit our economy hugely. You could also lower taxes for environmentally friendly shops i.e. repair shops, refurbishment shops, secondhand shops, local produce shops (farm shops) etc could all have significantly less business rates and other benefits to make them more viable. This would lower our level of imports and help lower our trade inbalance. Councils could easily setup indoor markets with micro traders (very small businesses) in large vacant retail premises. Many countries have huge markets with a huge number of traders who can make a basic living doing so. It also allows for traders with poor physical health and other issues.

There is absolutely no reason why we can't have a huge number of thriving bike shops in the uk. Especially as we need to ween people off their love of 1-2 ton vehicles. It's always about political will and choices. Japan is another densely populated country and they have far more people cycling and thriving small local stores because that's how the tax system works.

Unfortunately we have moronic politicians who are clueless to what they are doing. We are now facing normal people getting taxed for selling their old products on ebay with ebay and other sellers having to disclose to the government who is selling what etc. This will motivate people to sell their own goods less so more people will buy new and our trading inbalance increases. This will mean more people employed by the HMRC to deal with these tax concerns. Someone is going to have to make decisions whether someone is selling at a profit or a loss based on very little evidence. What the government should be doing is increasing sales tax on new items so more people are forced to consider secondhand purchases.

Anyway my point is UK retail can be shaped by politicians. It's easily within their power to restore the high street if they wanted to do that.

 

[All uphill]

The bulk of your turnover will be labour, and if you operate "by appointment" you can spend your time a lot more efficiently by fitting work in around other things, rather than sitting in an empty shop for eight hours a day waiting for someone to come and fondle something before they go off and buy it for less on the net.

Good points. You will also be able to select your customers, encouraging the ones who willingly pay for good service and discouraging those who want everything for nothing.

A local bike shop has adopted this model. No more bicycle sales, repairs and servicing to a very high standard at a premium price to existing customers and referred new customers only. It works for them.

During the pandemic I tried to help people get their old bikes back on the road; some were a delight - appreciative, prompt payment while others were nightmares.

 

[Cycleops]

Anyway my point is UK retail can be shaped by politicians. It's easily within their power to restore the high street if they wanted to do that.

Sorry but it does amuse me when people think the government can cure all the nations ills.
Sure they could pass bits of legislation that might or might not help but what they can't legislate against is buying habits. 86% of the UK population shop at Amazon. Legislation is not like jumping in a modified Delorean and suddenly you're transported back to the heyday of the high street, it's not going to happen.
Anyway this is a bit outside the scope of this discussion on the UK retail bike industry which has come about by a set of circumstances over which we have had no control.

 

[bonzobanana]

Sorry but it does amuse me when people think the government can cure all the nations ills.
Sure they could pass bits of legislation that might or might not help but what they can't legislate against is buying habits. 86% of the UK population shop at Amazon. Legislation is not like jumping in a modified Delorean and suddenly you're transported back to the heyday of the high street, it's not going to happen.
Anyway this is a bit outside the scope of this discussion on the UK retail bike industry which has come about by a set of circumstances over which we have had no control.

I totally get some people use Amazon out of pure convenience but again if the taxes are re-directed so online purchases involve higher taxes and shop purchases less then obviously you get a price advantage to local shopping. No one is saying that means everyone stops online shopping especially if its more specialist items that wouldn't be stocked locally but it still means a lot more local shopping.

This is not rocket science or radical in anyway by increasing costs for one type of retailer and lowering costs for another type there will obviously be a huge difference in costs which will have a knock on effect to pricing and make one more competitive. There is huge poverty in the UK now and most people I would say are price sensitive but certainly not all. It's not about going back to the past its about running a successful economy that doesn't have huge debts. If having a successful high street is better than having online sales mainly done by large international companies who don't even pay tax here then so be it. There are still many high streets doing well in the UK, they might typically have a higher percentage of elderly people in the area who don't shop online as much or at all but there are definitely places without huge numbers of empty shops. You just have to give people reasons to shop locally and the main one is of course price.

Changes in taxation can have huge effects both good and bad. The abolishment of the rates system had a huge effect on the housing market mostly negative that caused all sorts of future issues. Taxation is a powerful tool that can be used to shape the economy. If all Amazon prices went up 10% and high street prices went down 10% it would have an effect on shopping habits. If that was a 20% difference even greater. A change in the retail taxation landscape year by year could massively improve our economy. The huge cost to infrastructure with so many online deliveries for example the damage to road surfaces and this will be even greater with heavier electric vehicles.

People don't buy as much when its local either, they look at the product quality and often decide not to buy it. There is less waste with local shopping because you see the quality of the product. Many people don't return online goods despite being very poor quality. Local shopping is much better for the environment in many ways. The UK is one of the highest for online sales because the government has a hands off approach to business which is extremely destructive. I personally just can't see how we can continue as we are.

 

[albion]

I recall proposing an online tax to save bricks and mortar stores. Post decimation there is the new problem of companies also undercutting their own bricks and mortar stores.

 

[Grant Fondo]

We have lost a load of LBS's in Chester over the past 10 years, possibly one a year?

 

[wafter]

Sorry but it does amuse me when people think the government can cure all the nations ills.

Well, to be fair the f*ckers caused most of them and it's allegedly their job to sort it out..

Besides, our consumption-driven economy is unsustainable so arguably the incoming recession will fix the situation for us.

 

[Fastpedaller]

There's not a simple solution though. It's easy to believe 'news' that large companies such as Amazon 'don't pay taxes' - but what is the truth?
I'm sure most companies legally minimise their tax bills wherever they trade, it's probably also true to state that the likes of Amazon provide a useful service that people want (otherwise they wouldn't buy), provide jobs for staff and pay lots of tax and NI to the revenue as part of the process. There's a wider picture that the mainstream media may ignore whilst focussing on what suits their narrative and sells papers.

 

[wafter]

There's not a simple solution though. It's easy to believe 'news' that large companies such as Amazon 'don't pay taxes' - but what is the truth?
I'm sure most companies legally minimise their tax bills wherever they trade, it's probably also true to state that the likes of Amazon provide a useful service that people want (otherwise they wouldn't buy), provide jobs for staff and pay lots of tax and NI to the revenue as part of the process. There's a wider picture that the mainstream media may ignore whilst focussing on what suits their narrative and sells papers.

Or, the counter to that is that for once the MSM is doing its job in casting a critical eye on legitmate social injustices.. In practice tax avoidance is no different to tax evasion, other than that one is illegal and the other isn't.

One might argue that the legal system is loaded to favour the interests of those with the greatest wealth; is there a direct correlation between what is legal and what is morally just? Stoning homosexuals and beating your spouse is legal in some contries; does that make it acceptable?

Because people want something, does that make it morally justifiable? The Nazi party rose to power through the process of democratic elections - does the fact that they had majority consent make their actions legitimate?

 

[All uphill]

There's not a simple solution though. It's easy to believe 'news' that large companies such as Amazon 'don't pay taxes' - but what is the truth?
I'm sure most companies legally minimise their tax bills wherever they trade, it's probably also true to state that the likes of Amazon provide a useful service that people want (otherwise they wouldn't buy), provide jobs for staff and pay lots of tax and NI to the revenue as part of the process. There's a wider picture that the mainstream media may ignore whilst focussing on what suits their narrative and sells papers.

My local bike shop pays staff, NI etc and provides a service that is wanted. That wouldn't make it OK for them to avoid tax on their profits, though, does it?

I've managed to avoid buying anything from Amazon for a couple of years now; it's not been difficult.

 

[Fastpedaller]

My local bike shop pays staff, NI etc and provides a service that is wanted. That wouldn't make it OK for them to avoid tax on their profits, though, does it?

I've managed to avoid buying anything from Amazon for a couple of years now; it's not been difficult.

I hope they don't pay tax where they aren't required to - there is a difference, and without seeing the accounts (re large companies) and possibly having the abilities of a tax expert, we may never know the truth. n.b. I am not defending large companies, but merely giving what I consider to be the situation! I am of the opinion that large companies ride roughshod over society (PO an obvious example), so I am largely in support of small high-street shops and the difficulties they face.

 

[Punkawallah]

I suspect it will be a lottery.
A bike shop will survive or not depending on its outgoings and incomings. These will depend on local and national taxation, local and national sales, local and national competition, and its customer base. While it can try different ways of maximising income and minimising outgoings, if its customers don’t spend money there, it will fold. And nothing the shop does can oblige its customers to spend money.
Hence, a lottery.
It’s a miracle, really, that people are willing to risk it all on the throw of a dice.

 

[Cycleops]

Hence, a lottery.
It’s a miracle, really, that people are willing to risk it all on the throw of a dice.

Thank god they do, otherwise nothing would ever get started. More power to them.

 

[bonzobanana]

There's not a simple solution though. It's easy to believe 'news' that large companies such as Amazon 'don't pay taxes' - but what is the truth?
I'm sure most companies legally minimise their tax bills wherever they trade, it's probably also true to state that the likes of Amazon provide a useful service that people want (otherwise they wouldn't buy), provide jobs for staff and pay lots of tax and NI to the revenue as part of the process. There's a wider picture that the mainstream media may ignore whilst focussing on what suits their narrative and sells papers.

The issues with Amazon are I believe firstly their European tax base is in Luxembourg (I think) so they don't pay corporation tax here. However the other big issue is they are still growing so don't actually make a profit in Europe anyway or at least that was true a few years ago so even in Luxembourg I don't think they were paying corporation tax as that is on profit. Amazon have warehouse staff in the UK and some other staff but customer service is people in India mainly and other elements of the business are run off shore away from the UK. Amazon by running at a loss in Europe are basically destroying competitors at a high rate and of course in the future will move more to profit when there is less competitors than now. We have seen many competitors disappear both online and bricks and mortar. It's extremely easy to see the damage caused by Amazon not just the UK but the USA, Germany and many other countries where Amazon is a major player.

At the end of the day we have to decide if we just let the market dictate what happens or we proactively control our economy for the benefit of its citizens even if citizens resent this as it curbs their ability to import goods at such high levels.