What supps do you take?

[winjim]

I guess thats one way of looking at it, would be a hella long post mind.

Yes it would. That's why 'dietician' is a protected title.

 

[7anceArmstrong]

See Creatine is a supp, but has nothing to do with diet.

 

[winjim]

See Creatine is a supp, but has nothing to do with diet.

Of course it does. You have a dietary intake of creatine.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26874700/

 

[Ming the Merciless]

See Creatine is a supp, but has nothing to do with diet.

If you eat meat or fish it is in your diet anyway

 

[7anceArmstrong]

See boys, youve taught me something there.

Once again, thank you.

 

[ColinJ]

Why isn’t the dose stated? Unless I’m blind (there’s a lot of waffle on the product page)

And why if the evidence is so convincing are there no extensive Pubmed resources etc when looking for information on this? Just sites selling the products?

There are many of them - I have read scores of published articles.

Start the clock...

Google "academic articles k2"

Stop the clock. (3 seconds.)

2nd search result ....

"The use of vitamin D and vitamin K2 together as an approach to osteoporosis treatment may significantly reduce morbidity and mortality. This approach may rival bisphosphonate treatment without the side effects associated with the use of this medication, along with reducing vascular calcification and its complications."

 

[CXRAndy]

I started taking creatine, but for me couldn't tolerate it. I suffered quite severe dizzy spells, These started after day 1 and subsided immediately after stopping usage.

The supposed benefit of creatine is to increase explosive short burst power

 

[vickster]

There are many of them - I have read scores of published articles.

Start the clock...

Google "academic articles k2"

Stop the clock. (3 seconds.)

2nd search result ....

"The use of vitamin D and vitamin K2 together as an approach to osteoporosis treatment may significantly reduce morbidity and mortality. This approach may rival bisphosphonate treatment without the side effects associated with the use of this medication, along with reducing vascular calcification and its complications."

May...
Not ‘has been proven’?

The same google search gives me that one article, one more below and a bunch of stuff on astronomy?

https://jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(16)30005-3/fulltext

As an omnivore, it is likely I get enough Vit K and the article states lots more research is needed

Anyhow thanks (esp for the sarcasm) but work beckons

 

[ColinJ]

May...
Not ‘has been proven’?

The same google search gives me that one article, one more below and a bunch of stuff on astronomy?

https://jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(16)30005-3/fulltext

As an omnivore, it is likely I get enough Vit K and the article states lots more research is needed

Anyhow thanks (esp for the sarcasm) but work beckons

That was the 3 second search. I will give links to (say) 10 academic articles later to help you or anybody else who values their health to learn more about the subject.

Vitamin K comes in 2 forms - K1 and K2. As an omnivore (or any other 'vore') you ARE very likely to get enough K1 in your diet. (If you were not getting it then your blood would not clot so you would effectively become a haemophiliac.)

We are talking about K2, which has a different role in the body. There used to be a theory (by doctors, scientists, researchers, people who actually work in the field, NOT people selling supplements) that there was not a problem with humans getting enough K2 because there is a mechanism in the body for K1 (which, as stated above, there is plenty of) to be converted to K2. Further research has now shown that in humans this is an inefficient process and most of the K2 thus produced is not bio-available. Animals such as cows with very different digestive systems to us are very good at producing bio-available K2, given the right diet themselves.

Humans need to get it as K2 in their diet and not rely on their K1->K2 process. As an omnivore in 1900 you definitely WOULD have been getting enough in your diet because the animals that you ate (or which produced the dairy products and eggs that you ate) were feeding on high quality grass outdoors. These days, however, most people get animal products from animals that are fed a poorer diet which means that their K2 production is way down on what it would have been in past centuries. That in turn means that humans are often not getting enough K2.

K2 deficiency has repeatedly been shown to lead to poor quality bones and calcification in soft tissues. Osteoporosis and vascular disease have increased as K2 consumption has decreased.

As I mentioned previously, fermented products do contain more vitamin K2 and certain foreign cheeses are still made from milk of a high enough quality that they contain appreciable amounts of K2. So, it is POSSIBLE to get K2 from diet alone (that is the natural way!) but you need a natural diet to do so. That doesn't mean meat, milk, cheese, and eggs - it means HIGH QUALITY meat, milk, cheese, and eggs from animals not stuffed with corn pellets and spending most of their lives indoors. Most meat products, dairy and eggs now are NOT high quality.

The fermented soya product natto is a delicacy in certain parts of Japan. Where they eat it, they eat a LOT of it. It contains massive amounts of K2. Research has shown that it is rare for women in those parts of Japan to suffer from osteoporosis and the rates of heart disease and stroke are also lower. In the parts of Japan where they do not eat natto, osteoporosis is much more common. Japanese researchers have investigated that.

Anyway, I have things to do too. I'll put up links to 10 examples of interesting research later.

 

[ColinJ]

I forgot that I have deleted my bookmarks to lots of interesting articles on K1, K2, clotting etc. (I got a bit obsessed with the subject when recovering from my DVT/PEs in 2012/13 and thought it would be better for me to give myself (and everybody on the forum! ) a break from the subject.)

It is taking me too long to find them all again, but I have found this article that explains in proper technical detail what I was saying in my previous post. This link will take you to one search on PubMed which returns 24 results for 'vitamin k2 and atherosclerosis'. This one returns lots of results for 'vitamin k2 and osteoporosis'.

Obviously only medical professionals or biochemists are going to understand the detail in those articles but I find it possible to get a good idea of what they are about by skimming through and then concentrating on the conclusions.

One thing I forgot to mention that there are various forms of K2! I take the one that comes from (or is synthesised to be identical to the one that comes from) natto - MK-7.

There seems to be growing interest in the medical profession about vitamin K, which is now starting to be seen as important as vitamin D. It hasn't really caught the attention of the general public yet though so I do my little bit to tell people about it. It is certainly worth you spending an hour reading about it and making your own mind up!

 

[The Jogger]

Colin, how much K2 do you take?

 

[ColinJ]

Colin, how much K2 do you take?

100 mcg (micrograms) a day combined with 25 mcg of D3.

If there was enough in Dutch cheese that I could eat then I would do that instead but I worked out that I would need to eat about 150g a day!

4 large eggs a day would also be about right but you would have to be sure that the hens were eating the right food themselves. Free range isn't enough - they could be running around out in the open but eating corn/soya pellets!

 

[The Jogger]

I take 200mcg K2 and 5000 iu D3
Aldi have free range organic eggs, which I think would be a good source.

 

[ColinJ]

Yes, if you were careful to eat enough of the right foods of the right quality then you would be okay without supplements. I just look on them as insurance.

I certainly would NOT take extra iron, vitamin C etc. because they are very easy to get from a decent diet.

I do take a few other supplements which I might talk about later, but I have things to do now.

 

[davidphilips]

ColinJ , Many thanks for the imfo on K2 bought them from natures best (on sale at present) and intend to keep taking them, would be very interested in the other few other supplements that you take or can recommend, after reading up on k2 they seem well worth a few pence a day thanks again and safe cycling. .