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bobinski

Legendary Member
Location
Tulse Hill
Isnt the gist of it that the developments in aero narrow the speed difference between a breakaway working at full felt, and a following peoloton ? Have i missread? If so it seems much less likely the peloton will allow breakaways of more than a few minutes in future.
 

alex_cycles

Veteran
Location
Oxfordshire
Tankard's here. Photo doesn't do it justice. Thanks @Johnsop99
IMG_20220527_121650.jpg
 

Peter Salt

Bittersweet
Location
Yorkshire, UK
Isnt the gist of it that the developments in aero narrow the speed difference between a breakaway working at full felt, and a following peoloton ? Have i missread? If so it seems much less likely the peloton will allow breakaways of more than a few minutes in future.
I think that's the gist of the article, which is an interesting hypothesis, but I really don't see how that's the case in practice as the mental and strategic side of things is much more important than the mathematical one.

Any technological aerodynamic advantage that the breakaway has is also in play in the peloton. Agree, a few years back the breakaway could be doing 45km/h and the peloton 48km/h and now it's 47km/h and 50km/h respectively. Agree, at a greater speed you will cover the last, say 10km, a bit quicker - which means the peloton has less time overall to catch the front group. But it's marginal. I guess what the author meant (in algorithmic terms) is this:

Example 1: Breakaway 45km/h, chasing peloton 48km/h, 50s advantage, 10km to go: Breakaway will cover 10km in 800s. Peloton in 750s. Difference of 50s. Bunch finish (theoretically).

Example 2: Breakaway 47km/h, chasing peloton 50km/h, same 50s advantage with 10km to go: Breakaway will cover 10km in 766s. Peloton in 720s. Difference of 46s. Peloton 4s behind (56m at 50km/h, theoretically).

So despite the speed difference being the same, because it's faster overall, the peloton has a smaller time window to catch up. So technically speaking the argument is not completely void.

That said, if you look at stage 13. The breakaway had a bigger advantage with few kilometres to go, but messed it up by trying to outsmart one another. And we did see lead-out man not being 'sacrificed' yesterday. Great cooperation from the breakaway, poor cooperation from the (thinned out) peloton.
 
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bobinski

Legendary Member
Location
Tulse Hill
I think that's the gist of the article, which is an interesting hypothesis, but I really don't see how that's the case in practice as the mental and strategic side of things is much more important than the mathematical one.

Any technological aerodynamic advantage that the breakaway has is also in play in the peloton. Agree, a few years back the breakaway could be doing 45km/h and the peloton 48km/h and now it's 47km/h and 50km/h respectively. Agree, at a greater speed you will cover the last, say 10km, a bit quicker - which means the peloton has less time overall to catch the front group. But it's marginal. I guess what the author meant (in algorithmic terms) is this:

Example 1: Breakaway 45km/h, chasing peloton 48km/h, 50s advantage, 10km to go: Breakaway will cover 10km in 800s. Peloton in 750s. Difference of 50s.

Example 2: Breakaway 47km/h, chasing peloton 50km/h, same 50s advantage with 10km to go: Breakaway will cover 10km in 766s. Peloton in 720s. Difference of 46s.

So despite the speed difference being the same, because it's faster overall, the peloton has a smaller time window to catch up. So technically speaking the argument is not completely void.

That said, if you look at stage 13. The breakaway had a bigger advantage with few kilometres to go, but messed it up by trying to outsmart one another. And we did see lead-out man not being 'sacrificed' yesterday. Great cooperation from the breakaway, poor cooperation from the (thinned out) peloton.

Sure, but if we remove the mental and strategic aspects is it possible aero developments does mean a small neat group working together now travels faster than before, relative to a less cohesive blob/peloton and even taking into account how aero developments benefit them ? Perhaps the aero developments relatively speaking do benefit the small breakaway more than that blob.
 
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BurningLegs

Veteran
I don’t buy it. Sure there have been developments, and let’s assume that the break do have higher average speeds than a few years ago by one or two km/h.

That should always be immaterial when it’s 4 riders vs the peloton. The reason the peloton failed to catch that break isn’t because of aero it’s because they messed up and we’re playing games trying to save lead out men and force others to work etc

Smaller teams than a few years ago has a much bigger effect in my view, and the article just skipped straight over that.
 

Peter Salt

Bittersweet
Location
Yorkshire, UK
Sure, but if we remove the mental and strategic aspects is it possible aero developments do mean a small neat group working together now travels faster than before, relative to a less cohesive blob/peloton and even taking into account how aero developments benefit them ? Perhaps the aero developments elatively speaking do benefit the small breakaway more than that blob.
That can, of course, be the case. Without testing it empirically hard to judge though.

That said, I don't think anyone in that breakaway had a skinsuit, whilst Quickstep (doing some work behind) did. Further to that, de Bondt did the last bit with an unzipped jersey - which in itself was probably a 30W penalty :laugh:
 

Legs

usually riding on Zwift...
Location
Staffordshire
There's a parkrun starting up 5 miles down the road from me next week, so I'm going to dust off the running shoes and no doubt exacerbate my knee injury. :laugh:

Didn’t really push until the third and last lap today, got round in 21:02 but my right calf is properly sore! More than 160 runners showed up so I count that as a great start for Bramshall Road Parkrun. One of my colleagues came out and ran his first parkrun in 26:05, finishing with a smile on his face 😃
 

alex_cycles

Veteran
Location
Oxfordshire
Just completed my 12-month goal, which was to beat my monthly record mileage for each month in 12 successive months.
Made a bit harder by the fact that May's record was 800 miles, but we're now there. Now I can back off a bit :laugh:

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One of my clubmates asked "if you ride that much, why aren't you good?" His funeral is next week. :whistle:
 
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