Apalling actions from an Arriva bus driver

[ianrauk]

That's nothing, Ian. Gaz had an elective eye operation last week and replaced his eyeball with a nano camera on a telescopic stalk. It films at 4K, has a 360 degree viewing angle, infra-red capability and a 1000 x zoom. He can even see through tinted windows and stare into the soul of the driver that cut him up...

If you had said that about the 'droid I might have believed you...

 

[Monsieur]

Seems like the days when people went out for a cycle to enjoy the ride are long gone.
There's a friend of a friend of mine who rides a BMW RT motorbike - gets dressed up to look as close to a police officer as he can without having the word 'police' on his jacket. He actually rides out just so he can berate others for their driving and purposelly (sic) looks out for traffic issues.

His name is Richard. Quite apt really. I'm only surprised that he hasn't been punched in the face before now.

Ring any bells?

 

[Boris Bajic]

Tree down. Lovely smell of wood ash across the dew-soaked lawn just after dawn today. I rushed out to see like a child at Christmas.

The fire is out, but has burnt a perfect, vaulted dome into the underside of the trunk. I feel slightly sorry for the tree, but it was diseased and was close enough to buildings to be an issue.

For what it's worth, I think TrafficDroid is barmy and I do not buy the stuff about the crash as a sort of transformation like Halle Berry's fall in Catwoman. We've all been hurled across roads and landed to the sound of a hurty breaking thing. It doesn't make us fantasise about becoming Robocop. The crash (if it ever happened) might just be a sympathy-invoking cover story for fruitcake behaviour.

I love the fact that Matthew_T criticises TrafficDroid for essentially doing what he does but without the Welsh lilt. But I hate the fact that I'll have to cut up my tree trunk where it lies.

 

[jarlrmai]

So you look at the droid and Gaz's setups and they look crazy, but if you break it down you see the reasoning behind the decisions made if you are committing yourself to trying to get Roadsafe good enough evidence to give warnings and remember that this is a campaign, that these people are trying genuinely to make a difference to the way drivers drive around cyclists using Roadsafe as the weapon of choice.

Multiple good quality cameras and angles, looks crazy but the reasons are based on things that have been used to throw out the video evidence when they have tried to get action on dangerous driving.

1. Police etc asking them to prove it was them in the video, leads to the pole cams to show them in the footage and and rear cams show the bike and tailgating.
2. The wide angle lenses on action cams make overtakes look further away than they actually are so you need to show the bike and road in the footage to show how close things are.
3. Cameras need to be high enough quality to show faces of drivers to prove who was driving and show number plates involved.

Red cards and notes with YouTube channel links seem stupid and nerdy right?

1. Avoids the roadside arguing that gets you nowhere, drivers drive off, get aggressive, wind up windows (remember you are trying to change attitudes, if you let things go nothing changes ever)
2. YouTube links means that the driver knows they are online and can come on the internet and see it from a cyclists perspective and the comments mean they can try and justify and have the actual law given to them (mostly they just show themselves to be ignorant bigots)

Gaz and the Droid are backed up by Roadsafe they know they can submit footage and get results, the rest of us are not. Most of there encounters take place on busy London streets with CCTV and thousands of people milling around as well.

Gaz seems to upload rarely these days, whereas the Droid seems to have gone zero tolerance

Matt is riding in a different world to this and thanks to this forum has toned it down a lot but yeah he needs to not be confronting like this it's counterproductive.

 

[Matthew_T]

Mr. T, please do not give out cards with your YouTube name on. It further discredits your arguments against bad driving and looks rather like petty sensationalism.

Did you even read my reasons for the cards?
In an arguement I am very unlikely to even remember the cards never mind giving them to someone. The bus driver incident: I had plenty of time to give them a card but just never because it didnt cross my mind and I forgot.
In calm situations talking with friendly people who ask about the camera, etc then I might remember to give them a card and suggest that they view themselves online.
I dont go handing out cards like the Droid, but he influenced the idea.

 

[jarlrmai]

I'm interested in reason why the cards discredit arguments against bad driving?

other than some sort of school ground "don't telling on people to teacher" attitude?

 

[AndyRM]

Did you even read my reasons for the cards?
In an arguement I am very unlikely to even remember the cards never mind giving them to someone. The bus driver incident: I had plenty of time to give them a card but just never because it didnt cross my mind and I forgot.
In calm situations talking with friendly people who ask about the camera, etc then I might remember to give them a card and suggest that they view themselves online.
I dont go handing out cards like the Droid, but he influenced the idea.

I will confess that I did not. Like a lot of folk on this thread, I had lost the plot and was merely skimming through, amazed at the level to which everything had descended. I fully appreciate my own part in this, and will try to avoid this section of the Internet soon.

However, my point about the cards is still a valid one, I think. Why would you suggest that total strangers might want to view innocuous footage of themselves on YouTube? You didn't offer a card to the couple at the train track you recently filmed, which makes me wonder about your true motivations.

Before I'm accused of bullying or abuse, there is no malice behind my comments. I'm just trying to understand your viewpoint, as well as offering mine.

 

[AndyRM]

I'm interested in reason why the cards discredit arguments against bad driving?

other than some sort of school ground "don't telling on people to teacher" attitude?

Nothing of the sort.

For me, it smacks of self promotion on YouTube, rather than actually addressing poor driving. You can be paid for subscribers and views, hence my question about Mr. T's reason for the cards, which as he said, and I have now realised, he doesn't even hand out to poor drivers.

 

[Matthew_T]

However, my point about the cards is still a valid one, I think. Why would you suggest that total strangers might want to view innocuous footage of themselves on YouTube? You didn't offer a card to the couple at the train track you recently filmed, which makes me wonder about your true motivations.

I didnt have any on me when I was with the couple. I dont take them with me when I am commuting to work, because I rarely meet people (that and they wouldnt fit in my pocket).
The cards are not a necessity. I havent seen any difference in my behaviour by taking them out with me.

 

[AndyRM]

I didnt have any on me when I was with the couple. I dont take them with me when I am commuting to work, because I rarely meet people (that and they wouldnt fit in my pocket).
The cards are not a necessity. I havent seen any difference in my behaviour by taking them out with me.

So, in other words, they are pointless? I'm not trying to be flippant, but based on your comment, they serve no real purpose.

Imagine a sort of reverse situation. You have a bit of a 'mare at a junction whilst cycling (I've had a couple recently). An irate driver pulls you up, tells you how you'll be all over YouTube and issues you with a card containing the address. Would you be likely to consider how you could have improved your cycling, or dismiss the driver as a tw@ and tell your mates how drivers, collectively, are senseless d!cks?

For clarity, I think there are several of your videos which show poor driving, which is worth highlighting. This is why I feel that uploading videos such as your original are counter-productive.

 

[jarlrmai]

No-one is making money from YouTube views on bad driving.

If a driver did that to me I would certainly visit the YouTube link and have a look and then address the issues with the comments field, I would probably link it here to get support if I felt I was not breaking any laws. Because I understand why it is done this way as it is not practical to have a debate at a junction on a road with the adrenaline going from a near miss. If I was in error and I have had nightmares at junctions too and I always apologise to drivers, I would apologise to drivers on Youtube as well.

People have done the whole pull out a phone and "video the cyclist with the camera see how they like it thing" here's the thing I would encourage drivers to do this with dashcams (obviously using a mobile is illegal if you are driving) if they feel cyclists are breaking the laws, however every time I've seen an upload from a driver (the one in Australia and there was another one I can't remember where it was from) the reason they were upset was because they did not know or understand the laws anf in both cases the cyclist was cycling lawfully.

Certainly a few riders including myself have learnt from watching our own footage where we have made mistakes (i'm not talking purely about not taking primary etc)

So again why are the cards discrediting it, given that the YouTube views are not making anyone any money.

 

[AndyRM]

No-one is making money from YouTube views on bad driving.

If a driver did that to me I would certainly visit the YouTube link and have a look and then address the issues with the comments field, I would probably link it here to get support if I felt I was not breaking any laws. Because I understand why it is done this way as it is not practical to have a debate at a junction on a road with the adrenaline going from a near miss.

Certainly a few riders including myself have learnt from watching our own footage where we have made mistakes (i'm not talking purely about not taking primary etc)

Not bad driving specifically, but there is money to be made from viewers on YouTube. Whether Mr. T gets any or not is speculation on my part, hence my questions.

I don't think there's much to be achieved within the comments on YouTube. It is a den of racism, villainy and poor attitudes. I don't think you will get far by posting needlessly confrontational videos online either, which remains my position.

Like you, I have learned plenty from the footage of others. But I haven't learned anything from this.

 

[Matthew_T]

No-one is making money from YouTube views on bad driving.

If a driver did that to me I would certainly visit the YouTube link and have a look and then address the issues with the comments field, I would probably link it here to get support if I felt I was not breaking any laws. Because I understand why it is done this way as it is not practical to have a debate at a junction on a road with the adrenaline going from a near miss. If I was in error and I have had nightmares at junctions too and I always apologise to drivers, I would apologise to drivers on Youtube as well.

People have done the whole pull out a phone and "video the cyclist with the camera see how they like it thing" here's the thing I would encourage drivers to do this with dashcams (obviously using a mobile is illegal if you are driving) if they feel cyclists are breaking the laws, however every time I've seen an upload from a driver (the one in Australia and there was another one I can't remember where it was from) the reason they were upset was because they did not know or understand the laws anf in both cases the cyclist was cycling lawfully.

Certainly a few riders including myself have learnt from watching our own footage where we have made mistakes (i'm not talking purely about not taking primary etc)

That exact thing happened with me. However, the driver did not go on their way, they targetted me and followed me around town. The outcome wasnt so good for the driver.

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxvErixVGL4&list=WLC6274A9E2C9ED5B8

 

[jarlrmai]

So where does the debate happen? Don't confront the driver, don't upload to YouTube then it doesn't happen ever. But the main reason for the YouTube videos stands the driver can come and see it from the cyclists perspective, they can be linked to the correct laws for the roads etc.

The general comments in YouTube videos are bad, but the specific comments on a video only likely to be watched by a few people one of which might be the driver, at least might get something across which is not possible with a through a window argument on a street, even if it's just "you are possibly going to be filmed so don't cut up cyclists."

I'm trying to have a debate about the wider reasons that people are filming and uploading you keep bringing it back to this video..

 

[AndyRM]

So where does the debate happen? Don't confront the driver, don't upload to YouTube then it doesn't happen ever. But the main reason for the YouTube videos stands the driver can come and see it from the cyclists perspective, they can be linked to the correct laws for the roads etc.

The general comments in YouTube videos are bad, but the specific comments on a video only likely to be watched by a few people one of which might be the driver, at least might get something across which is not possible with a through a window argument on a street, even if it's just "you are possibly going to be filmed so don't cut up cyclists."

I'm trying to have a debate about the wider reasons that people are filming and uploading you keep bringing it back to this video..

This video was the original point of the thread, which is why I've tried to relate most of my comments to it.

However, if you want to discuss the wider reasons for helmet cam based footage that's fine.

I understand them and think that appropriate videos serve a purpose. For me, this is not an appropriate video, as the issue was created by poor cycling and a needlessly confrontational attitude after the incident.