Armstrong charged and banned

[rich p]

What a heap of platitudiness cobblers and disinformation and misinformation.

When the video finished and there are 6 options to choose from, I found more sense spoken in this one...

...

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smWOWa0fFc4&feature=relmfu

 

[raindog]

oops - just posted this in the wrong thread - JB OUT
http://johanbruyneel.com/news_articles/tour_statement_2012.html

 

[Crackle]

oops - just posted this in the wrong thread - JB OUT
http://johanbruyneel.com/news_articles/tour_statement_2012.html

Messages of support; Liggett was it?

 

[Noodley]

I wonder if we could petition ITV4 to get different commentators? Liggett and Sherwen are fanboys, totally not objective when it comes down to commenting on doping as they are in the pay of US media. Which is a shame as they have "sold out" over the years.

 

[roadracerash1]

These doping allegations are a load of bull. The French couldn't deal with the fact that a foreigner was winning tours and it all started with the media. I think its time the world should start to suck it up and move on. Why do i think that Lance is innocent? Well just watching that documentary made back in 2005 about the science behind lance armstrong is proof in itself that his physiology and biochemistry puts him above his competition. Plus all his blood test results for performance enhancing drugs, which every other athlete had to under go, came back... you guessed it.... negative.

 

[Crankarm]

These doping allegations are a load of bull. The French couldn't deal with the fact that a foreigner was winning tours and it all started with the media. I think its time the world should start to suck it up and move on. Why do i think that Lance is innocent? Well just watching that documentary made back in 2005 about the science behind lance armstrong is proof in itself that his physiology and biochemistry puts him above his competition. Plus all his blood test results for performance enhancing drugs, which every other athlete had to under go, came back... you guessed it.... negative.

Oh oh .................... cue another 21 pages.

 

[fozy tornip]

.. the world should start to suck it up .

Much as one might fill a syringe?

 

[Pedrosanchezo]

Must say this thread has been a great read. Simple browsing turned into a much longer piece of brain stimuli. ;-)

I sit on the fence on this one and i hope no one slates me for it. I simply don't have all the facts and i am happy to admit that without this i cannot say for sure wether he is guilty or innocent. The thing is though, there are lots of opinions on here that simply will not be changed regardless of any official outcome. Some on here say that Lance has been doping for years and that this is simple obvious fact. A fact is something that is not in dispute. Isn't it?

Some on here would not have a bad word said against because of the obvious character the man has. To battle cancer and win 7 TDF's is no piece of cake but it most certainly does not make the man innocent of doping. As far as character assumptions go see Ryan Giggs (for the footy fans out there).

End of the day it is all just speculation and, until a verdict is reached, a very good read (for me at least).

I genuinely cannot think of one high energy sport where drugs have not played a big part. To be the best simply means to do whatever it takes. Whilst i do not condone it i can easily see that if you can get away with it then to not do it actually gives you a disadvantage. Certainly in LA's time drugs in the sport (and many other high energy sports) were rife. If one was to put winning above all else in life then the choice/risk doesn't seem to exist at all. Again i would not choose this route but i do not win pro races. To what extent would you sacrifice yourself to be the best appears to be the question.

We don't live in an ideal world and i for one still love to watch the major tourny's start to finish regardless of wether some refer to it as tainted due to doping or not.

Until euro sport starts airing the "drug free tour series" i will continue to sky plus every second of the drug riddled cycling that they have to offer just now.
It is fantastic inspiration getting out doors when it's raining 24/7 in sunny Scotland.

 

[yello]

These doping allegations are a load of bull.

Thanks for that.

I suspect Armstrong's lawyers have agreed with that assessment somewhere in their 18 page letter in response to the USADA charges. I've not read it yet so I don't know if they're actually contesting the charges. My guess is not.

The Bruyneel news doesn't surprise me. My question is 'did he jump or was he pushed?'

 

[rich p]

These doping allegations are a load of bull. The French couldn't deal with the fact that a foreigner was winning tours and it all started with the media. I think its time the world should start to suck it up and move on. Why do i think that Lance is innocent? Well just watching that documentary made back in 2005 about the science behind lance armstrong is proof in itself that his physiology and biochemistry puts him above his competition. Plus all his blood test results for performance enhancing drugs, which every other athlete had to under go, came back... you guessed it.... negative.

A convincing argument and very well put I might say.

 

[threebikesmcginty]

A convincing argument and very well put I might say.

Are you a convert?

 

[david k]

Pro Lance and factually incorrect.

what was incorrect?

i find this thread very interesting, IMO he probably did dope or take EPO and i believe most did (and the more money you had the more sophisticated your drugs). They couldnt test for it at the time, for periods it wasnt even banned as they werent aware of it. Id rather them have caught riders at the time and cleaned it out but its taken them time, i believe its a lot clearner now but may never be totally clean. Not sure there is enough evidence to charge lance with anything now, its a case of 'the horse has bolted'. If he did cheat and i beleive he did, then he and others got away with it.

At some stage we must move on, its really messy, a can of worms, now is time to let it be. i dont like him if what i have heard is correct but that shouldnt be the reason to go after him. after all, his 7 tours are all under question and dont bring the respect they would if these question marks were not over them, we will have to be satisfied that this is the way it will be

 

[PaulB]

For some insight into the situation, I'd strongly recommend this http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Blood-Secret-Life-France/dp/0224080229

It tells the story of the appearance of EPO being interpreted by many teams as having been green-lighted by the cycling authorities at the time and, naturally, that was pushed to its maximum by the riders and DSs until the plug was pulled.

It would be difficult to read this and assume Armstrong (and the book isn't all about him) achieved all he did on eggs and isotonic drinks. In the light of the recent information about tax-evasion, Armstrong's defence is that of someone stating that as what he did was legal, why are we bothering to ask for full clarification on the issue.

 

[yello]

Thanks for posting that Paul, I'm going to get a 2nd hand copy to read.

Interesting that you say EPO was "green lighted". I didn't know that. I knew there was a period of time when it was used extensively without being specifically 'red lighted' but I must admit I'd assumed it was always a no-no, outed as performance enhancing or at least not in the spirit.

 

[Andrew_P]

I also read that kind endorsed or ceartainly not tested for in the 94 season in a book about Lance Armstrong but not written by him. How demoralised both Armstrong and Motorola were about the EPO riders being so powerful that season. (Ithink it was 94 it was defintely the season that LA was "carrying" the burden of the Rainbow Jersey) If the book was accurate it gave the impression that LA was considering quitting. I am just getting to the kind of but not completely secret first meeting between LA and Ferrari, and how pissed the Motorola team Dr Testa was when he found out about the meeting. In the book the reason Testa was pissed seemed to be the dramtic improvement riders who went to see him got, without saying through doping..

The book is not completely pro LA but the genral tone of it I do not think it will cover the doping much but I am only half way through it.