Can Tyson Fury win?

[Billy Wizz]

A fit and clever fella who is a whole lot richer this Sunday morning.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpzzkQ7ylKM

 

[shouldbeinbed]

How is someone trained to knock someone out without causing any long-term trauma?

As for preventative measures eg "with a referee to ensure competitor safety' I guess you'd have to ask this lot about that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deaths_due_to_injuries_sustained_in_boxing

...correction: you'd need to asked their nearest & dearest.

American football is going through a huge hundreds of milliions of dollars class action lawsuit at the moment on the debilitating effects of the percussive and concussive head impacts suffered by players.

Many (& families) are donating their brains to medical examination, several have taken their own lives rather than live with the personality changes and degeneration, Dave Duerson & Junior Seau probably the highest profile cases in point.

Many soccer footballers from older generations have ended up with mental degeneration -Jeff Astle again maybe the best known and rmost recent example - from heading hard old leather balls over their career.

It isn't just boxing that hurts.

 

[Tin Pot]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing - football
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_cyclists_who_died_during_a_race - cycle racing

Like all sports, accidents do happen. There's no point pretending they don't. But the numbers are small in comparison to the number of competitors.

The aim of the game is to win. The aim isn't to make a child parentless, or for a parent to lose their child. That never is the aim, and it would be silly to act like it is. When you see boxers on TV, shouting about how they're going to knock them out. It's a show, it's for TV, it's to sell tickets.

There are risks in boxing that don't exist in other combat sports. Knockouts aren't extremely common in boxing, and due to the rules, the head gets repeated trauma. This is tried to be controlled in professional boxing by regular brain scans.

It is a sport, a game, no different than cycle racing, or hockey. Like other contact sports, Rugby for example. They're tough contact sports, but the last thing you want to do is seriously injure a competitor.

Whilst I agree with the competitors attitudes, I'm not so keen on the audience.

I see no issue with fighting, it's natural behaviour, ceremonialised for safety and entertainment.

I'm not so keen on the attitudes of people who love watching people get hurt.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

How is someone trained to knock someone out without causing any long-term trauma?

As for preventative measures eg "with a referee to ensure competitor safety' I guess you'd have to ask this lot about that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Deaths_due_to_injuries_sustained_in_boxing

...correction: you'd need to asked their nearest & dearest.

I assume before citing that wiki, that you did check them?

I have just looked through every article of each death linked there. I'm sure, you're aware that some of those do date back to 1920 and even earlier. Deaths from a combat sport nearly 100 years ago?

Anyway, I went through and removed each of those deaths that aren't modern era of boxing. Which I'd consider to be late 90s onwards, a time in which a lot of changes happened medically to support and protect competitors.

26 deaths. Since around 1995.

This first one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Afrizal states that there was a bout of deaths from Indonesia, to the point in which Indonesian boxers were banned from competing by the WBC, due to poor safety regulations there

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Aguillón Not a lot of information, but Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Alcázar this death was European, but did also prompt changes in medical procedures for fighters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bae_Ki-suk The article here suggests a mismatch in ability, and claimed the fight shouldn't have been sanctioned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davey_Browne unfortunate boxing death in Australia, not much info about the cause.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randie_Carver Was headbutted throughout the fight, an opponent that should have been disqualified, and a ref that failed in their duty to protect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choi_Yo-sam Boxing incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Garcia Early one this, 1995. But article states that the corner team should have stopped this fight early.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Gonçalo No evidence this was caused by a punch, collapsed due to ruptured artery. Was put in a medically induced coma, then died when they removed parts of his brain

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Óscar_González_(boxer) A very unfortunate boxing incident in Mexico

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leavander_Johnson American boxing incident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karlo_Maquinto 2012 accident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Antonio_Nazareth Mexico accident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Norgrove UK's first boxing death of the 21st century. 2013. The article states that the referee stopped the fight before any knock out as he noticed unusual behaviour. Unfortunately medicine couldn't stop him

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesshin_Okada No info, other than the 38th to die in Japan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Page_(boxer) Death by neglect. ". There wasn't an ambulance, a team of paramedics, or oxygen, all of which were required by law. The ringside doctor, Manuel Mediodia, wasn't licensed in Kentucky and was under suspension in Ohio. At the time of the stoppage, Mediodia had already left and had to be brought back into the building. Twenty-two minutes passed before an ambulance arrived" Article states that he did survive. But severely disabled.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Rodriguez_(boxer,_born_1984) Accident in America, again referee stopped the fight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Rone Shouldn't be here "An autopsy later revealed Rone had died of a heart attack instead of as a consequence of the punch inflicted by Zumbrun."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martín_Sánchez Mexico, missed by 2 doctors. Spotted unusual behaviour and taken to hospital

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beethaeven_Scottland Again, comments referee should have stopped the fight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lito_Sisnorio Unsanctioned fight

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braydon_Smith Boxing accident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Villalta Boxing accident

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Becky_Zerlentes Boxing accident

So from the original 51, 38 were from Japan alone.

From a modern era of boxing and medicine, there was 26.

Out of those 26, 7 were caused by neglect of officials, 1 was a heart attack, 1 was unsanctioned

So now we're down to 18 world wide deaths in boxing since the mid 90s. 5 were from Mexico alone, the recent ones had the fight stopped. So the competitor can be examined.

The trend is that there are less and less deaths as time goes on. Less are caused by neglect, and each death has prompted changes in the medical regulations of the sport. Of course there is a few accidents in there. But there are deaths and accidents in all sports, and the massive participation figures, the deaths are tiny.

So your list of 51, is really down to a case of 15 or so accidents in over 20 years, world wide with around 20000 professionals world wide, and many, many more amateurs. Your numbers are no longer so shocking, but would fit well in a scare article.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

that was a pitiful display of boxing, this is why I'm now drawn more to MMA, but well done to Fury, he wins so that makes him English the commentators should be ashamed with some of the bollox they are sprouting, Fury went to another level, if so then he must be very piss poor...

It was truly dreadful. I have not watched boxing for many years and that display last night reminded me why. Utter bollocks.

 

[Pale Rider]

Michael Holding, a tall and very fit West Indian gentleman, used to hurl a cricket ball at batsmen.

Routinely, he would bounce the ball to aim for the batsman's throat or head.

A skilled batsman, wearing no helmet, facing Holding in full flight was a tremendous sporting contest.

Holding's nickname was Whispering Death, I believe because he was very quietly spoken.

The only despicable thing amount him - to me - was he played for the other lot.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

A fit and clever fella who is a whole lot richer this Sunday morning.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpzzkQ7ylKM

Very interesting video. The look here to me is that Klitschko is nervous.

 

[Billy Wizz]

everyone who is somebody in boxing has been avoiding, Fury, everyone who wants a shot cant get a shot,now, the guy is World Champ and well deserved.
I am sure Tyson will give the under card a blow ??

 

[Pale Rider]

It was truly dreadful. I have not watched boxing for many years and that display last night reminded me why. Utter bollocks.

Isn't that the general nature of modern heavyweight boxing?

Most fights are lumbering, plodding, wars of attrition.

If you want lightning fast rat-a-tat boxing with two athletic fighters skipping around the ring, you need to look at the much lighter weight divisions.

 

[Pro Tour Punditry]

Isn't that the general nature of modern heavyweight boxing?

It probably is, and it's probably why I don't watch. Lumbering, plodding wars of attrition are not a sporting spectacle. I am sure everyone of us in this thread could rattle off the names of heavy weights champions from the past who were neither lumbering nor plodding, and who would have been able to stop Fury within a couple of rounds. But we are where we are, and I am not planning on watching again anytime soon.

 

[Billy Wizz]

That is why its called Heavyweight, boom boom, go down the divisions and the fighting is great.

The most Dynamic Heavyweight ever, Mike Tyson was done and dusted in his early 20s !!

The middleweight division which i grew up with,i am not going to start naming names, Is ok, boxing will never be as it was a few decades ago.

I hope the sport can go on, ? Probably not with the memories..?

 

[martint235]

everyone who is somebody in boxing has been avoiding, Fury, everyone who wants a shot cant get a shot,now, the guy is World Champ and well deserved.
I am sure Tyson will give the under card a blow ??

At the moment all the news I'm seeing is that Klitschko will take up his re-match option

 

[Pale Rider]

At the moment all the news I'm seeing is that Klitschko will take up his re-match option

Presumably the champ has the choice of venue, so Fury could have it in Manchester or even Ireland if he still has strong connections there.

 

[martint235]

Presumably the champ has the choice of venue, so Fury could have it in Manchester or even Ireland if he still has strong connections there.

Seems more complicated that it used to be. It's apparently in the contract that there is a rematch option but at least one report (Telegraph) is saying that Fury may be forced to Germany for it.

 

[Pale Rider]

I believe there can also be an element of following the money.

Some fights have taken place in America purely because the purse is bigger due to cable TV.

Fury is on record as saying money is not his prime motivation, so insofar as he has a say, he might want home advantage.

But as you say, he will ultimately be bound by the contract.