Chain oil for bikes - cheaper alternative?

[Dogtrousers]

That's CASTOR oil you should be taking.

Damn. I got CASTROL by mistake. That explains a lot.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

When I rode a chain-driven motorbike I used to take off the chain and boil it in a big round tin of black wax, which penetrated the links and resisted being flung off. Anything lighter would end up spattered all over the rear of the bike. Shaft drive was a fantastic little bit of technology, especially on a commuter.

That takes me back a bit...

I remember having to take the chain off, clean it in paraffin or similar, then coil it up and place in the tin of lube on the gas ring. Light the gas and simmer the chain for a while before lifting it off to set down on the floor. Lifting the chain out could be a bugger if you hadn't got a handy wire coat hanger. Then you hung the chain up to drip excess lube back into the tin.

A bit fiddly but great results. Good old Duckhams Chainguard!

GC

 

[ayceejay]

You guys must be oiling your chains way more often than me, I use bike chain specific oil and a small bottle lasts a long time. Transmission fluid has many chemical additives that I think it is best to avoid and chainsaw oil is meant, not only to lubricate the chains rollers but to lubricate the cutting edge so that it cuts through wood easily - oil on the surface of a bike chain gathers muck.

 

[Richard A Thackeray]

Diesel £1.20 a litre.

Red diesel = a lot cheaper!!
That's my method, I bought a gallon about 5 years ago, & still using it!!
Applied using old toothbrushes & flannel, then perhaps rubbed over once a week, with a dampened cloth
it's thin enough to penetrate, and flush the muck out
Viscous enough to get into the links
Cheap enough to replace after every ride, if you wish

Hypoid Gear oil. Very cheap, quite sticky compared to oils, very well suited to maintaining oil film strength under pressure.
Only downside is it smells foul.

As does diesel, fine if the bike is in the shed/garage, but in the house........................

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Dry ceramic lube on my motorbikes for years too. Same on road bikes too. All lovely and clean.

What's so difficult?

It isn't difficult, but different. Motorcycle chains and bicycle chains cannot be compared. The former is a bushing chain with O-rings on each and every pivot which keeps grease-for-life inside and uncontaminated. Any lubrication applied to the outside merely lubricates the O-rings.
Bicycle chains on the other hand are bushingless and sans O-rings. This means we have to use a lubricant that can flow inside upon application. The two applications are vastly different and comparisons are invalid.

 

[maltloaf]

I use plain old 3in1 and have done since last winter. I clean the chain with gt85 and a rag after a wet ride or if it's gunked up and put the tiniest of drops on each roller. The can i used cost me £3 from sainsburys and after over a year of riding in all weathers and relubing regularly, I've used well under half of it.

My previous lube was the progold stuff and I found it wasn't lasting very well. I'm really happy with 3in1

 

[Drago]

Spry Crisp N Dry.

 

[tyred]

Hub gear and chaincase - problem solved.

 

[bpsmith]

It isn't difficult, but different. Motorcycle chains and bicycle chains cannot be compared. The former is a bushing chain with O-rings on each and every pivot which keeps grease-for-life inside and uncontaminated. Any lubrication applied to the outside merely lubricates the O-rings.
Bicycle chains on the other hand are bushingless and sans O-rings. This means we have to use a lubricant that can flow inside upon application. The two applications are vastly different and comparisons are invalid.

So what you're saying is, the Castrol Chain Wax, specifically designed for motorbike chains, works perfectly, but that Muc-Off Ceramic Lube, specifically designed for bicycle chains, does not!?!

Edit: but that I should be using Chainsaw Oil or Diesel, designed specifically for...

 

[Yellow Saddle]

So what you're saying is, the Castrol Chain Wax, specifically designed for motorbike chains, works perfectly, but that Muc-Off Ceramic Lube, specifically designed for bicycle chains, does not!?!

Edit: but that I should be using Chainsaw Oil or Diesel, designed specifically for...

No.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Anyone else remember LPS3? You don't see it around anymore. Very evocative smell.

 

[bpsmith]

No.

Then I don't get your point?

Mine was that using the product designed for the job is usually the best way. Your reply suggests you disagree, but then you disagree with that too. ?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

Then I don't get your point?

Mine was that using the product designed for the job is usually the best way. Your reply suggests you disagree, but then you disagree with that too. ?

If I interpret what you said correctly was that you use something called Dry Ceramic lubrication on motorcycle chains and on your bicycle chain too.

My point is that a product designed for a motorcycle chain with internal lubrication sealed in with O-rings is not ideal for bicycles. I also make the further point that wax products or anything that isn't liquid oil is also not ideal for bicycle chains because bicycle chains are a bushingless design that requires a flow lubricant.

I'll make a third point, which is any oil used on a bicycle chain that does not turn black with use is also not suitable.

A bicycle chain, or motorbike chain for that matter, undergoes two different work cycles; the tension cycle and the return run. On a bicycle the tension cycle is the part on top, from where the chain departs the rear sprocket to where it enters the front sprocket. Any link in this cycle experiences only tension. As soon as the link goes around the front chainring it starts to relax and enters the return run where it remains in relative slack until it turns the corner around the top of the cassette again.

During the tension cycle oil between the bushing and pin is squeezed out of the interface and on the return run oil returns again. Oil thus flows in and out. The inflow is by way of capillary action and the outflow is because the capillary is squeezed and the fluid moves elsewhere. The black you so quickly see on the chain is steel particles ground off inside the chain when it articulates under tension. The reason the black oil can eventually be seen is evidence that the oil flows as you pedal.

Should you apply wax to the chain then the tension cycle squeezes the wax out but it cannot flow back in. We see evidence of this in the wax that settles on the pulleys and outside of the chain sideplates. The wax wasn't applied there, it moved there. However, it cannot move back. The chain doesn't turn black, which means that the grit remains inside and also that the insides are running without the aid of lubricant.

On motorcycle chains the inside is greased for life. Wax is sprayed on the outside to dampen the noise from sprocket on chain and also to lubricate the outside of the chain a bit. Oil can't be used here because of the speed the chain moves and it will shoot off within a few kilometers. A second reason oil is not used here is because these are bushing chains that are just about impossible to clean and once dirt is inside it remains inside and reduces chain life.

Bicycle chains are open and liquids can freely flow in and out. It is easy to wash a chain and completely clean out the insides and replace with fresh oil and this should be done frequently if you care about chain life.

As I explained earlier on, a suitable chain lubricant is oil that's neither too thick or too thin and it is easy to find the sweet spot.

 

[Acyclo]

It's not so much the cost that I object to but the muck and grit that accumulates on the chain and transmission as that creates a grinding paste which causes wear.
I'm now trying a water-based lube sold by "Scot-oiler", the people that make oiler kits for motor bikes. Tried it for the first time on a really mucky day following salt being sprayed on the roads and returned with the bottom half of the bike covered with muck....all except the transmission which was a clean as when I left. I imagine that being water-based this would mean more applications would be needed.
No connection and all that.....

Hmmm, a water based lubricant, interesting. I might try that myself. <Googly Google...> This stuff i take it: http://www.scottoiler.com/uk/Cycle/Scottoiler-Ultimate-Bike-Solution-750ml/flypage.tpl.html

 

[bpsmith]

If I interpret what you said correctly was that you use something called Dry Ceramic lubrication on motorcycle chains and on your bicycle chain too.

My point is that a product designed for a motorcycle chain with internal lubrication sealed in with O-rings is not ideal for bicycles. I also make the further point that wax products or anything that isn't liquid oil is also not ideal for bicycle chains because bicycle chains are a bushingless design that requires a flow lubricant.

I'll make a third point, which is any oil used on a bicycle chain that does not turn black with use is also not suitable.

A bicycle chain, or motorbike chain for that matter, undergoes two different work cycles; the tension cycle and the return run. On a bicycle the tension cycle is the part on top, from where the chain departs the rear sprocket to where it enters the front sprocket. Any link in this cycle experiences only tension. As soon as the link goes around the front chainring it starts to relax and enters the return run where it remains in relative slack until it turns the corner around the top of the cassette again.

During the tension cycle oil between the bushing and pin is squeezed out of the interface and on the return run oil returns again. Oil thus flows in and out. The inflow is by way of capillary action and the outflow is because the capillary is squeezed and the fluid moves elsewhere. The black you so quickly see on the chain is steel particles ground off inside the chain when it articulates under tension. The reason the black oil can eventually be seen is evidence that the oil flows as you pedal.

Should you apply wax to the chain then the tension cycle squeezes the wax out but it cannot flow back in. We see evidence of this in the wax that settles on the pulleys and outside of the chain sideplates. The wax wasn't applied there, it moved there. However, it cannot move back. The chain doesn't turn black, which means that the grit remains inside and also that the insides are running without the aid of lubricant.

On motorcycle chains the inside is greased for life. Wax is sprayed on the outside to dampen the noise from sprocket on chain and also to lubricate the outside of the chain a bit. Oil can't be used here because of the speed the chain moves and it will shoot off within a few kilometers. A second reason oil is not used here is because these are bushing chains that are just about impossible to clean and once dirt is inside it remains inside and reduces chain life.

Bicycle chains are open and liquids can freely flow in and out. It is easy to wash a chain and completely clean out the insides and replace with fresh oil and this should be done frequently if you care about chain life.

As I explained earlier on, a suitable chain lubricant is oil that's neither too thick or too thin and it is easy to find the sweet spot.

What I initially said was that I used a Dry Ceramic product on both types of chain. It was your assumption that this was a single product applied to both. I never said that was the case and, when my motorbike got written off recently, I gave all of my motorbike chain stuff to mate. Was never tempted to use on either of my bicycles.

It's academic really, as I don't see the point of arguing over this minutae.

Your posts have been very informative, and we're on the same page in our views, so let's not quibble over it?