Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

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Pale Rider

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
He's in court because the pedestrian died after a collision with a cyclist. Cyclist are a menace. Especially Lahndahn Louts.

Had he been driving a car as badly, and as badly "maintained" well... the defence have said it all, a much lesser charge I reckon.

Were he a driver, he would have been in line for one of the causing death by driving charges.

They don't apply to cyclists because of the wording '...you drove a mechanically propelled vehicle...' which is why the prosecution has got a bit creative with the wanton and furious/manslaughter charging approach.
 
Were he a driver, he would have been in line for one of the causing death by driving charges.
If he was driver who went online and said "I tooted her twice, but she didn't get out of the way", yes probably . But if he'd said "she stepped out suddenly and I didn't have time to stop. That terrible moment will stay with me for the rest of my life" then maybe not.
 
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T4tomo

Legendary Member
It would depend on circumstances, the prosecutions approximate case is he should have known having no brake was dangerous yet knowingly ride it anyway.

If had proper brakes but knowingly didn't use them for whatever hypothetical reason then he may well have been charged. If he genuinely didn't have he opportunity to use them, then probably not.
 

Firestorm

Veteran
Location
Southend on Sea
If he was driver who went online and said "I tooted her twice, but she didn't get out of the way", yes probably . But if he'd said "she stepped out suddenly and I didn't have time to stop. That terrible moment will stay with me for the rest of my life" then maybe not.
The article on the defence summing up has a line about it being agreed that she stepped backwards into him.
So it seems that not only did she step out in front of him 30 ft from a Zebra crossing, but when he had avoided her she stepped backwards into him.
It strikes me as being a harsh prosecution ....
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
yelling at someone instead of braking could have induced a panic that made her step back.

Which is why you have to be very careful, if using an audible warning, to do so at sufficient distance you can react to this this kind of response.
Sometimes it's better to stay quiet, slow down and go behind.
 

Buddfox

Veteran
Location
London
It appears the jury has still not reached a verdict and has been sent home. Deliberations resume at 10:00 tomorrow.

Can anything be read into that?
 

rliu

Veteran
Can anything be read into that?

It is an extremely difficult case to consider and I won't be surprised if there are significant splits in the room. Both the accused and the victim will cause sympathies and prejudices in different ways, and that's not to mention the purely factual complications to reaching a verdict - in that the victim was unaware of the approaching cyclist, and had crossed the road while distracted.
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
Can anything be read into that?

Maybe >>
12-angry-men-group-300x217.jpg
??
 

iwantanewbike

Über Member
If he does get sent down I would hope the case represents a turning point in all traffic violence cases, i.e. much tougher sentences for all dangerous drivers and cyclists alike. This would be a real improvement to the current system. However if the punishment is disproportionate to that received by drivers going forward I'll be quite dismayed. I do however think the charge against him is a bit dubious given he wasn't totally to blame. Many people simply don't look when crossing the road and rely on their ears too much, which is useless if there is a quiet bicycle approaching.

I see his contribution to her death no more than driving a car around with any of the following: bald tyres, any mechanical problems previously aware of, no MOT, on a mobile phone, speeding or tired due to a night out even if sober.

Consciously choosing not having an effective brake is the only fact that is relevant but the other parts (his immediate reaction including shouting at her) I don't think should be taken into account in terms of whether the collision could have been avoided or not.
 

rliu

Veteran
If he does get sent down I would hope the case represents a turning point in all traffic violence cases, i.e. much tougher sentences for all dangerous drivers and cyclists alike. This would be a real improvement to the current system. However if the punishment is disproportionate to that received by drivers going forward I'll be quite dismayed. I do however think the charge against him is a bit dubious given he wasn't totally to blame. Many people simply don't look when crossing the road and rely on their ears too much, which is useless if there is a quiet bicycle approaching.

I see his contribution to her death no more than driving a car around with any of the following: bald tyres, any mechanical problems previously aware of, no MOT, on a mobile phone, speeding or tired due to a night out even if sober.

Consciously choosing not having an effective brake is the only fact that is relevant but the other parts (his immediate reaction including shouting at her) I don't think should be taken into account in terms of whether the collision could have been avoided or not.

Of the many replies to the thread I think yours most closely aligns with my view. As Alliston's defence barrister alluded to, in this situation where a pedestrian has crossed the path of a cyclist, it's very dubious who is the more vulnerable road user, as it would have been just as likely for the cyclist to be thrown over the handlebars and suffer head injuries and for the pedestrian to escape with non permanent injuries. It is a very different situation to if a cyclist had hit a pedestrian from the back on a shared used path for example, a situation where the entire responsibility to be cautious and mindful of risks is on the cyclist.
 

rliu

Veteran
Would you drive a car with no brakes other than using the gears and engine? That would be a closer approximation.

There are many cases of pedestrian deaths due to excessive speeding which has tripled or quadrupled braking distances, I would say that is an apt comparison to the situation here.

https://rdrf.org.uk/2017/08/21/the-charlie-alliston-case-the-real-story/

The writer here points out the lenient sentences given to drivers who kill due to excessive speeding.

If Alliston is convicted he would not escape a custodial sentence given the seriousness of a manslaughter charge. Surely that is unfair.
 
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