Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[numbnuts]

I bet now this won't be the last time we hear “wanton and furious driving” mainly aimed at cyclists
18 months out in 9 or less

 

[adscrim]

It does feel like he has been held to a higher standard than would be expected of a motorist.

It makes you wonder if the Judiciary view a 'short' custodial sentence as being comparable to points and a ban. If there were cycling licences, and I trust there never will be, would he have been given points, a fine and a ban instead?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

It does feel like he has been held to a higher standard than would be expected of a motorist.

3/4 of the maximum I believe. I feel like few motorists would get that for "Causing death by..."

 

[srw]

Too harsh and, hateful a person as so many found him, do we think those 18 months are going to create an improvement?

I'm not a fan of prison - it's usually a way of making a bad person worse. But I think this is richly deserved. I hope he gets some insight into his behaviour while he's inside.

It does feel like he has been held to a higher standard than would be expected of a motorist.

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...ies-ramming-tree-faces-five-years-jail-329795
Five years for serious injuries - a driver. For example. "Motorist seriously injures someone and is jailed" just isn't news.

The court will have used standard sentencing guidelines. The fact he was on a bike rather than in a car or wielding a hammer would have been deemed irrelevant.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Too harsh and, hateful a person as so many found him, do we think those 18 months are going to create an improvement?

No. For me not a case of too harsh but rather a case that had he been driving he would have likely got less....

 

[Dan B]

It makes you wonder if the Judiciary view a 'short' custodial sentence as being comparable to points and a ban. If there were cycling licences, and I trust there never will be, would he have been given points, a fine and a ban instead?

If there were parity between the way in which we consider motoring offences and the "equivalent" cycling offences, I am sure that he would be able to claim "exceptional hardship" and escape the ban

 

[srw]

3/4 of the maximum I believe. I feel like few motorists would get that for "Causing death by..."

http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/...ausing-death-by-driving-dangerously-1-5013399

Five years. For instance.

http://www.scottishlegal.com/2015/0...erous-driving-has-sentence-reduced-on-appeal/
Nine years. For instance.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/westmidlands/cps_west_midlands_news/motorist-jailed-for-causing-the-dea/
Four-and-a-half years. For instance.

(Yes, we can all google counter-examples.)

 

[User482]

I'm not a fan of prison - it's usually a way of making a bad person worse. But I think this is richly deserved. I hope he gets some insight into his behaviour while he's inside.


http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/l...ies-ramming-tree-faces-five-years-jail-329795
Five years for serious injuries - a driver. For example. "Motorist seriously injures someone and is jailed" just isn't news.

The court will have used standard sentencing guidelines. The fact he was on a bike rather than in a car or wielding a hammer would have been deemed irrelevant.

You're drawing a comparison with a motorist who used her vehicle as a weapon? Seriously? More realistic would be "death by careless driving" as there is no suggestion of intent on the part of Mr Alliston. As I've said before, I know someone who was convicted of that last year... do you suppose he's in prison?

 

[srw]

If there were parity between the way in which we consider motoring offences and the "equivalent" cycling offences, I am sure that he would be able to claim "exceptional hardship" and escape the ban

It's news because it's rare. It's not the norm.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

http://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/...ausing-death-by-driving-dangerously-1-5013399

Five years. For instance.

http://www.scottishlegal.com/2015/0...erous-driving-has-sentence-reduced-on-appeal/
Nine years. For instance.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/westmidlands/cps_west_midlands_news/motorist-jailed-for-causing-the-dea/
Four-and-a-half years. For instance.

(Yes, we can all google counter-examples.)

As googling counter-examples is all too easy I continue to feel like few motorists would get 18 months for "Causing death by..."

 

[User482]

As googling counter-examples is all too easy I continue to feel like few motorists would get 18 months for "Causing death by..."

Precisely this. It's normalised in our society, and this is reflected in the sentencing. And we all know how rarely a "dangerous driving" conviction is secured, as opposed to the lesser "careless driving".

 

[GrumpyGregry]

As googling counter-examples is all too easy I continue to feel like few motorists would get 18 months for "Causing death by..."

I'll add "hereabouts". It may be different elsewhere.

 

[srw]

You're drawing a comparison with a motorist who used her vehicle as a weapon? Seriously? More realistic would be "death by careless driving" as there is no suggestion of intent on the part of Mr Alliston. As I've said before, I know someone who was convicted of that last year... do you suppose he's in prison?

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...ing_death_by_driving_definitive_guideline.pdf

Precisely this. It's normalised in our society, and this is reflected in the sentencing. And we all know how rarely a "dangerous driving" conviction is secured, as opposed to the lesser "careless driving".

Do we? Do we really? Or do we just assume we do because of what gets reported by the press?

For what it's worth, the CPS guidelines are online: https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...ing_death_by_driving_definitive_guideline.pdf

 

[rliu]

The Guardian story alludes to Alliston having lost his father aged 15 and been in an 'emotionally flat' state since

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The Guardian story alludes to Alliston having lost his father aged 15 and been in an 'emotionally flat' state since

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...jailed-for-18-months-over-death-of-pedestrian

As an old boss used to say "We've all got a ****ing story".