Charlton Heston R.I.P.

[redcogs]

Why was he unpleasant?

Running around in those dreadful ape films was enough to label him for me.

Despite any early positive utterances regarding civil rights in the US, his involvement in promoting and defending gun toting via the NRA has to throw up questions about his more recent sense of social responsibility doesn't it?

 

[Maz]

Old 2 Ronnies joke: I thought Charlton Heston was a football team.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Running around in those dreadful ape films was enough to label him for me.

Despite any early positive utterances regarding civil rights in the US, his involvement in promoting and defending gun toting via the NRA has to throw up questions about his more recent sense of social responsibility doesn't it?

You have to remember that to an American, it's a constitutional issue, not a a moral one, so they approach it in an entirely different way from us. In fact, I think the Supreme Court has a case before it on whether the ban on handguns in Washington is constitutional or not.

 

[Keith Oates]

I'm not a gun fan and have never owned or fired one, except for air guns in Fairgrounds etc., but I do have a couple of friends who are in clubs and enjoy the sport. I think it's like most things, there are always nutters around and if they get hold of guns the results are usually drastic. However banning guns will not stop these people acquiring them IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Despite any early positive utterances regarding civil rights in the US, his involvement in promoting and defending gun toting via the NRA has to throw up questions about his more recent sense of social responsibility doesn't it?

It wasn't just utterances. He took action, marched and manned the picket lines - in those days, that was taking quite a risk.

 

[redcogs]

OK 'Monkey, but early radicalism in a radical period cannot be the only criteria for any proper assessment can it. As you know, the history books are littered with those who scored highly on the ethical and political scale during their youths, but sadly failed to sustain that initial flourish over a sustained period of time.

Of course, no one should seek to diminish Heston's earlier outrage about injustice, or his courage then, for standing up and being counted.

But don't we have to temper our praise with the sober recognition that much of the violence that we witness across the pond does have a relationship to small arms availability there, and that figures like Heston bear some responsibility for that circumstance?

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

But don't we have to temper our praise with the sober recognition that much of the violence that we witness across the pond does have a relationship to small arms availability there, and that figures like Heston bear some responsibility for that circumstance?

Much of the stance of the NRA is predicated on the belief that criminals are already armed to the teeth and any restrictions on the right to hold firearms only affect law abiding citizens. As it happens, I don't agree with them, but their stance is a perfectly reasonable one to take, especially given the unique constitutional position of "the right to bear arms."

 

[redcogs]

Much of the stance of the NRA is predicated on the belief that criminals are already armed to the teeth and any restrictions on the right to hold firearms only affect law abiding citizens. As it happens, I don't agree with them, but their stance is a perfectly reasonable one to take, especially given the unique constitutional position of "the right to bear arms."

Agreed Patrick.

 

[User482]

Much of the stance of the NRA is predicated on the belief that criminals are already armed to the teeth and any restrictions on the right to hold firearms only affect law abiding citizens. As it happens, I don't agree with them, but their stance is a perfectly reasonable one to take, especially given the unique constitutional position of "the right to bear arms."

Isn't it the case that criminals are armed to the teeth because of the lack of gun controls?

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Isn't it the case that criminals are armed to the teeth because of the lack of gun controls?

As it is generally acknowledged that we have the strictest gun controls in the world, then there ought to be no armed criminals in Britain.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

Patrick, Singapore has far stricter controls. It's simply illegal for civilians to own firearms. And they have an extremely low gun crime rate. Although it is admittedly a police state, which may help the statistics.

I ought to have qualified my comment by referring to gun controls in democratic countries. Police states have traditionally been rather keen on keeping the populace away from anything they might use for rebellion.

 

[tdr1nka]

The right to bear arms, or 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791 and reads as follows;

'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

Quite obviously this has been open to varied interpretation over the years considering in it's original context the phrase 'to bear arms' meant to join or be part of an army or militia and has nothing to do with the rights of the individual to own firearms.

 

[Cycling Naturalist]

The right to bear arms, or 2nd amendment was ratified in 1791 and reads as follows;

'A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.'

Quite obviously this has been open to varied interpretation over the years considering in it's original context the phrase 'to bear arms' meant to join or be part of an army or militia and has nothing to do with the rights of the individual to own firearms.

I think the crucial word is "keep" which implies that people can keep arms at home. My view is that the amendment is now obsolete because there is no need for a modern army to call up a militia of armed civilians.

 

[redcogs]

Yes Patrick, the Brits have been kicked out now.

A bit reluctant to leave initially, they were eventually persuaded.

Sounds a bit familiar.

 

[Canrider]

My view is that the amendment is now obsolete because there is no need for a modern army to call up a militia of armed civilians.

You're probably aware of this, but many Americans would insist that their personal firearms act as a deterrent against the potential of future government tyranny.

Nevermind that a bunch of civilians armed with popguns isn't going to last all that long against the BATF and the US military, Iraq situation bedamned.

The spirit of '76 is well and truly alive in the States.