jay clock
Massive member
- Location
- Hampshire UK
Dipping my toe into this cycle-camping malarky
- Thread starter Cathryn
- Start date
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My tips Buy a good mat for a decent sleep, we use an older version of this. typehttps://www.thebrokebackpacker.com/thermarest-neoair-xtherm-sleeping-pad/.
A tent that's good for sitting in if the weather is awful, that's a 2 person or a one+. We use Hilleberg ones, pricey but well made and are storm proof.
A tent that's good for sitting in if the weather is awful, that's a 2 person or a one+. We use Hilleberg ones, pricey but well made and are storm proof.
classic33
Leg End Member
Go the other way and buy cheap kit, can put you off camping. The tent and the sleeping bag, in that order if cycle camping are the important items.
andrew_s
Legendary Member
- Location
- Gloucester
Rather than add another entry to the "I use tent XXXX, and I think it's good" list (a Hilleberg Akto, £230 in 2008 when I bought it, £680 now), I thought I'd offer more general advice by suggesting some questions you may like to think about the answer to before making a choice.
Since you asked for a recommendation, I'll suggest a Wild Country Zephyros 2.
By no coincidence, this is an Akto clone
A) Euro style or American style?
Euro style tents typically have a solid fabric inner, and an outer that comes right down to the ground.
American style tents typically have large areas of mesh on the inner, and the outer leaves a sizeable gap between its lower edge and the ground.
American style tents have considerably better ventilation, and hence suffer from condensation* less often, but on the other hand, they don't warm up inside to the same extent that Euro style tents can. (The two go together, temperature differences being what causes condensation.)
They can also, in some conditions, allow wet mist, or fine sand, to blow under the edge of the outer, and through the mesh of the inner.
B) End entry or side entry
End entry tents (e.g. @chriswoody, post 13) can be uncomfortable for cooking if you aren't happy sitting crosslegged in the entrance for long enough. They also tend to have comparatively little porch space, which may mean that you don't have the option of cooking in the porch, should the weather be too bad to do so outside. Porch size is often particularly poor when the inner door isn't vertical.
Side entry tents (e.g.@numbnuts, post 14) allow you to lie on your side and cook** with your free hand. The porches are also generally quite a bit larger, often enough so that you can cook in one end and store your panniers in the other (thus not requiring space for them in the inner). On the flip side, it's easier to let rain into the inner on entry/exit, and, if there are two of you and there's only a door one side, the person on the non-door side has to climb over the other person for any nocturnal toilet visit.
C) Size
Bear in mind that larger tents weigh more and pack larger than small tents.
Smaller tents will, all other things being equal, warm up more and suffer more condensation than larger tents.
Tent sizes are usually quoted like 1, 1+, 2, 2+, 3..., where the number is the nominal number of people, and a + means it's either fairly generous for the indicated number of people, or that you may possible squeeze another person in if you're friendly, and don't move about too much in the night. It's common for cycle campers to go for a tent that's n+1, for the extra space, but going for 2+ or 3 when the second person is only occasionally present, would, I feel, be a mistake.
My Akto is strictly one person (i.e. there's no way to accommodate a second person without removing the inner and using just the outer). I find this OK, but I generally don't bring anything into the inner other than sleeping bag/pillow/mat, and any clothes I intend to wear in the morning. Everything else remains in the porch, either in the panniers, or loose (stove etc), but pushed down to the non-door end of the porch.
D) Ease of pitching
It's difficult to be sure without actually using a tent yourself for a fair period, but you can try asking about specific models, and it's worth considering how you'd manage, on your own, on a windy day (call it 25-30 mph). A tent is at its most vulnerable when it's up far enough to catch the wind, but the outer isn't properly tensioned and you don't have any guys in.
What can be a problem is the throw over outer of an inner first pitching tent, if you've only previously used it in calm weather
* Condensation: None is not a valid choice; you'll get some sometimes regardless of what tent you have. In general, all tents will get condensation when there's a dew on the grass outside.
** Cooking: It's always recommended that you cook well outside the tent. However, this is Britain, and the weather will often mean that you need to cook in the shelter of an open porch, and can sometimes mean that you've a choice of cooking in a closed porch or going hungry. This is less of a problem if there's actually space to do so, both in terms of floor area, and clear space above the stove & pan. If your tent doesn't have porch space, I'd suggest you use a Trangia 25/27, as they would tolerate being left to their own devices outside better than most other stoves.
I'd still recommend that you get the stove running outside before bringing it in (any flare-ups are most likely at startup or refuelling), and that you turn the stove off as soon as you're done with cooking.
Sleeping Mats.
You've a choice of 3 types
1) Closed cell foam (eg Thermarest RidgeRest), 100% reliable (short of putting it in the fire), bulky, not all that comforable (similar to the living room carpet?)
2) Self-inflating (e.g. Themarest ProLite). An open-cell foam core with an airtight cover bonded to it, with the foam keeping the whole mat mat shaped. Typically 1" thick, and fairly comfortable. Failure is by puncture (fixable), or by delamination (the cover to core bond failing) or the valve failing (rare), both not fixable, except by warranty replacement, which is generally not convenient mid-trip.
3) Insulated air beds (eg Thermarest NeoAir). A lightweight airbed, with added insulation of some type. Typically 2.5 to 3" thick, and comfortable. Failure is by puncture (fixable), or by baffle failure (the baffles that form the "tube edges" failing, so instead of 2 small tubes, you've got one very fat one) or the valve failing (both not fixable)
Bear in mind that the insulated airbeds need inflating. The NeoAir mats can be inflated by blowing if necessary (don't rush it, or you'll go light headed), but most need some sort of pump sack arrangment in order to keep the insulation from getting wet. Small electric pumps do exist, but you'd need to check vavle compatibility.
The warmth is indicated by R-value. I reckon that you'd want 2.5 or more for 3 season use, or mayby more if you figure you'd feel the cold more than me. I found the cold was noticeable with a 2.5R mat on a frosty night, but not so noticeable that it kept me awake.
Just for confusion, occasionally you'll see R given using SI units (rather than deg F, BTUs, sq. feet and hours). The difference is such that 1 SI unit = 5.7 US units, so hopefully you'd spot it.
Pillows:
I also like the Sea to Summit Aeros, which I prefer to the Exped I had before.
Since you asked for a recommendation, I'll suggest a Wild Country Zephyros 2.
By no coincidence, this is an Akto clone
A) Euro style or American style?
Euro style tents typically have a solid fabric inner, and an outer that comes right down to the ground.
American style tents typically have large areas of mesh on the inner, and the outer leaves a sizeable gap between its lower edge and the ground.
American style tents have considerably better ventilation, and hence suffer from condensation* less often, but on the other hand, they don't warm up inside to the same extent that Euro style tents can. (The two go together, temperature differences being what causes condensation.)
They can also, in some conditions, allow wet mist, or fine sand, to blow under the edge of the outer, and through the mesh of the inner.
B) End entry or side entry
End entry tents (e.g. @chriswoody, post 13) can be uncomfortable for cooking if you aren't happy sitting crosslegged in the entrance for long enough. They also tend to have comparatively little porch space, which may mean that you don't have the option of cooking in the porch, should the weather be too bad to do so outside. Porch size is often particularly poor when the inner door isn't vertical.
Side entry tents (e.g.@numbnuts, post 14) allow you to lie on your side and cook** with your free hand. The porches are also generally quite a bit larger, often enough so that you can cook in one end and store your panniers in the other (thus not requiring space for them in the inner). On the flip side, it's easier to let rain into the inner on entry/exit, and, if there are two of you and there's only a door one side, the person on the non-door side has to climb over the other person for any nocturnal toilet visit.
C) Size
Bear in mind that larger tents weigh more and pack larger than small tents.
Smaller tents will, all other things being equal, warm up more and suffer more condensation than larger tents.
Tent sizes are usually quoted like 1, 1+, 2, 2+, 3..., where the number is the nominal number of people, and a + means it's either fairly generous for the indicated number of people, or that you may possible squeeze another person in if you're friendly, and don't move about too much in the night. It's common for cycle campers to go for a tent that's n+1, for the extra space, but going for 2+ or 3 when the second person is only occasionally present, would, I feel, be a mistake.
My Akto is strictly one person (i.e. there's no way to accommodate a second person without removing the inner and using just the outer). I find this OK, but I generally don't bring anything into the inner other than sleeping bag/pillow/mat, and any clothes I intend to wear in the morning. Everything else remains in the porch, either in the panniers, or loose (stove etc), but pushed down to the non-door end of the porch.
D) Ease of pitching
It's difficult to be sure without actually using a tent yourself for a fair period, but you can try asking about specific models, and it's worth considering how you'd manage, on your own, on a windy day (call it 25-30 mph). A tent is at its most vulnerable when it's up far enough to catch the wind, but the outer isn't properly tensioned and you don't have any guys in.
What can be a problem is the throw over outer of an inner first pitching tent, if you've only previously used it in calm weather
* Condensation: None is not a valid choice; you'll get some sometimes regardless of what tent you have. In general, all tents will get condensation when there's a dew on the grass outside.
** Cooking: It's always recommended that you cook well outside the tent. However, this is Britain, and the weather will often mean that you need to cook in the shelter of an open porch, and can sometimes mean that you've a choice of cooking in a closed porch or going hungry. This is less of a problem if there's actually space to do so, both in terms of floor area, and clear space above the stove & pan. If your tent doesn't have porch space, I'd suggest you use a Trangia 25/27, as they would tolerate being left to their own devices outside better than most other stoves.
I'd still recommend that you get the stove running outside before bringing it in (any flare-ups are most likely at startup or refuelling), and that you turn the stove off as soon as you're done with cooking.
Sleeping Mats.
You've a choice of 3 types
1) Closed cell foam (eg Thermarest RidgeRest), 100% reliable (short of putting it in the fire), bulky, not all that comforable (similar to the living room carpet?)
2) Self-inflating (e.g. Themarest ProLite). An open-cell foam core with an airtight cover bonded to it, with the foam keeping the whole mat mat shaped. Typically 1" thick, and fairly comfortable. Failure is by puncture (fixable), or by delamination (the cover to core bond failing) or the valve failing (rare), both not fixable, except by warranty replacement, which is generally not convenient mid-trip.
3) Insulated air beds (eg Thermarest NeoAir). A lightweight airbed, with added insulation of some type. Typically 2.5 to 3" thick, and comfortable. Failure is by puncture (fixable), or by baffle failure (the baffles that form the "tube edges" failing, so instead of 2 small tubes, you've got one very fat one) or the valve failing (both not fixable)
Bear in mind that the insulated airbeds need inflating. The NeoAir mats can be inflated by blowing if necessary (don't rush it, or you'll go light headed), but most need some sort of pump sack arrangment in order to keep the insulation from getting wet. Small electric pumps do exist, but you'd need to check vavle compatibility.
The warmth is indicated by R-value. I reckon that you'd want 2.5 or more for 3 season use, or mayby more if you figure you'd feel the cold more than me. I found the cold was noticeable with a 2.5R mat on a frosty night, but not so noticeable that it kept me awake.
Just for confusion, occasionally you'll see R given using SI units (rather than deg F, BTUs, sq. feet and hours). The difference is such that 1 SI unit = 5.7 US units, so hopefully you'd spot it.
Pillows:
I also like the Sea to Summit Aeros, which I prefer to the Exped I had before.
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Vantage
Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
- Location
- Behind everyone else, Bolton
I on the other hand would advise against it.
Granted, its well made. Mine survived a night of hurricane force winds (literally) however, its an absolute pain in the rear end to pitch. Getting both the outer taught enough to not sag whilst keeping the inner taught enough to not sag is mission impossible. Getting dressed in there requires a level of bendiness reserved for acrobats and keeping the door open without it sagging and flapping all over the place is also difficult. Burnt a hole in mine due to that. It's been buried in the back of the camping cupboard never to be seen again for its faults and awkwardness.
Use a couple of clothes pegs.
Petrichorwheels
Senior Member
Must admit I've never understood the concern over the height of a tent, particularly if solo. When in a tent I'm pretty much all the time sleeping or reading. Only time it seems to me it might be a concern is if two campers and you want to sit up playing cards. Or have sex.
thinks - maybe tents should be rated for such - possible positions.
Petrichorwheels
Senior Member
Have never used one but have checked out a few times and it looks good. I know a lot of cycle tourists rate the Banshees.
@Cathryn if considering, worth knowing that Vango now do different versions of some of their tents, including I think the Banshee. You can get uprated ones with tougher flysheets. A few other differences as well.
Petrichorwheels
Senior Member
I too rate Decathlon - lots of their stuff seems well designed and made and good value. And yes I had noticed that you can buy components separately - quite rare these days. Almost quaint/old fashioned when the norm seems to be for folks to dump stuff and buy another.I've recently bought the Forclaz MT 900 (2 person) (Decathlon) and really can't fault it at all. Mind you I haven't tested it in the rain yet. I like Decathlon and find their no quibble replacement service to be excellent. Its a new concept for me being inner first but I've been enjoying leaving the fly off and falling asleep to the stars.
One thing about Decathlon tents is that the fly, the inner and the poleset are available to buy individually.
I can't vouch for them personally but anytime I've seen a naturehike tent in the wild I've made a point of chatting to the owner. They tend to small (so definitely think +1) but no-one has had complaints. Available only online..
And away on a tangent......
Winter camping can be a real gift! Those long, winter nights, wrapped up warm and cosy listening to the bitter wind outside reading a good book with maybe a flask of hot chocolate or mulled wine (some people even drink tea!) with the rest of the world far, far away can be a great, self spoiling exercise.
(The mornings though can be a bit fresh
Happy home hunting!
Really interesting tent - but do you find the colour an issue? (am quite conservative and tent to favour some sort of green for some sort of camo)
The typical tent height is sufficient for average height sitting or kneeling. The Gelhert was about 1/2 height and you need to be quite flexible to dress. I rate it * only. The Akto is generous for solo size and has a specially selected colour for interior ambience. **** . Poor venting makes condensation an issue.
Petrichorwheels
Senior Member
Must say from your various adventures @Cathryn I think I thought you already were a a cyclecamper.
Welcome to a world of freedom - you sure look happy in the pic.
I would agree with folks who say get a 2 person tent for 1.
I can recommend the Robens Lodge 2.
But others including the Vango (good value company) Banshee are available.
Main structure of the Lodge 2 is self supporting (a big plus I think) and two generous porches with separate entrances - even with solo occupancy and only getting in one side handy for getting at stuff.
I wouldn't get too hung up (pun?) on inner or outer pitch.
Good time of year to buy a tent - sales starting soon and discounts will get deeper.
If you should end up getting interested in what might be termed serious/expedition tents, there are often bargains on ebay - tents used one or two nights by someone who hankered for cutting free and then life intervened (baby on the way or family pressures) or they realised that it wasn't for them. I got such a tent recently - chap had only used for two nights on a campsite. Even better if you can arrange to collect - by bike of course.
I have the idea that you will take to this lark and in time venture into wildcamping - at least some of the time - some campsites can be pricey these days or over manicured/regimented.
Welcome to a world of freedom - you sure look happy in the pic.
I would agree with folks who say get a 2 person tent for 1.
I can recommend the Robens Lodge 2.
But others including the Vango (good value company) Banshee are available.
Main structure of the Lodge 2 is self supporting (a big plus I think) and two generous porches with separate entrances - even with solo occupancy and only getting in one side handy for getting at stuff.
I wouldn't get too hung up (pun?) on inner or outer pitch.
Good time of year to buy a tent - sales starting soon and discounts will get deeper.
If you should end up getting interested in what might be termed serious/expedition tents, there are often bargains on ebay - tents used one or two nights by someone who hankered for cutting free and then life intervened (baby on the way or family pressures) or they realised that it wasn't for them. I got such a tent recently - chap had only used for two nights on a campsite. Even better if you can arrange to collect - by bike of course.
I have the idea that you will take to this lark and in time venture into wildcamping - at least some of the time - some campsites can be pricey these days or over manicured/regimented.
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Petrichorwheels
Senior Member
best stick to reading then.
(must say am surprised that such a well-rated company making expensive tents falls down on that. Am not a fan of very pricey tents, and your report back is kinda reassuring in a perverse way).
Venting is important - I well remember waking on a camping trip with a partner and encountering terrible damp in the morning - only later realised that it was condensation and not leakage - may have been the tent or her paranoia about anything resembling a draught - she may have closed the vents
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Apart from opening all vents to max, I also open the main zip 1/4 and lift up the ground hugging flysheet base with a shoe or pot. It works best in high winds and exposed sites.
