Handbags - acceptable language?

[Deleted User]

I full understand the issue regarding public speakers and agree that in this day and age things like that can't be said, clearly the fact that you and many others I assume, would be offended.

I was asking if YOU heard a a couple of blokes talking and one of them used that phrase relating to either his mate or another fella whether it would offend you?

I didn't realise everyday people would find that upsetting that's all, good job I work in a Male environment then.

Gender Neutral?

Come on!

 

[mudsticks]

I full understand the issue regarding public speakers and agree that in this day and age things like that can't be said, clearly the fact that you and many others I assume, would be offended.

I was asking if YOU heard a a couple of blokes talking and one of them used that phrase relating to either his mate or another fella whether it would offend you?

I didn't realise everyday people would find that upsetting that's all, good job I work in a Male environment then.

Gender Neutral?

Come on!

Who are 'everyday' people?

I'm 'a person' everyday.

I tried being a Unicorn..
Didn't work out..

Again it would depend on the context.

It doesn't make any difference whether you're in a male or female environment.

The words convey the same meaning, perpetuate the same negative stereotype.

As it happens I've spent most of my life in a male dominated world.

Doesn't mean I can't challenge these ideas.

And it happens that my sons do very often too

 

[glasgowcyclist]

This thread reminds me of the infamous video of the two cage fighters in drag on a night out being accosted by a couple of macho eejits. The pair were decked with a single punch each by Daniel Lerwell, undefeated champion bare-knuckle boxer.

The pair made the mistake of thinking two guys in women's clothing would be an easy target.

Watch from about 1 minute:
View: https://youtu.be/-yvU6sifwkI?t=61

 

[Deleted User]

Cheers,

Not that it matters but I don't have a clue what 'being a Unicorn' means and the fact that your Sons do something often has me lost as well?

The Male environment comment was because I could never see blokes I work with being offended if they heard someone say Drama Queen.

I assumed only a Woman would find it offensive hence being glad I didn't work with any.

 

[mudsticks]

Cheers,

Not that it matters but I don't have a clue what 'being a Unicorn' means and the fact that your Sons do something often has me lost as well?

The Male environment comment was because I could never see blokes I work with being offended if they heard someone say Drama Queen.

I assumed only a Woman would find it offensive hence being glad I didn't work with any.

No not only a woman would find it offensive, some men would too..

But might not bring it up, for fear of ridicule, such as to be found in these pages..

But even if it were 'only' women That took issue, then wouldnt that be reason enough to be a bit thoughtful, about what you were saying and why.

Wonder "Why do we trot out. this stuff? What does it imply?"

The Unicorn bit was in response to your 'everyday people' as if you were implying that some folks aren't people 'everyday'

I referred to my sons as examples of some men I know, who will challenge lazy stereotyping of this nature as well.

Phew - this is hard work..

But not as hard as shovelling sh1t..

So on we go

 

[Deleted User]

I see, sorry to be hard work.

Different worlds I guess, Dad was a Factory worker, I work in the Rigging industry , Son's a Prison officer and the Missus has recently retired from a 30 yr career as a Theatre Nurse so never really been around people who are upset by the type of phrases we're discussing here.

I genuinely would never have thought calling someone a Drama Queen could be upsetting to anyone other than the person being called it.

Live and learn I guess.

 

[Fab Foodie]

I see, sorry to be hard work.

Different worlds I guess, Dad was a Factory worker, I work in the Rigging industry , Son's a Prison officer and the Missus has recently retired form a 30 yr career as a Theatre Nurse so never really been around people who are upset by the type of phrases we're discussing here.

And you're sure about that are you?

 

[Deleted User]

And you're sure about that are you?

Sure about what?

 

[matticus]

I know it won't make the slightest bit of difference to "your view" because that's obv the only rational and sensible view here, and everyone else is talking utter nonsense.

But fwiw (I should be planting salad) in some contexts gender based insults can cause offense.

Take for example 'Drama Queen"

Why did "Drama King" not hold the same power to insult, or convey an implication ??

The world of cyclechat may be entertaining, varied and wise, but it does not contain the whole of human knowledge. So if everyone or noone here agrees with me, I won't take that as my only guidance in life.
I can only tell you what I know: the widespread usage of Drama Queen flowered amidst the 60s gay community. The word "King" was very unlikely to feature in their vernacular.
The other (non-Cyclechat) research dug up the issues around gender stereotypes that you have mentioned; I didn't see any hard evidence, and I assessed the sources. I made a judgement that these issues are not materially affecting the world - just as I judge fans of the Kardassians to be wrong, but harmless, or judge women buying pink bikes as essentially harmless. It's a subjective matter, but I'm currently confident in that view.

in some contexts gender based insults can cause offense.

Indeed: Some. And can. You're entitled to your view, and I respect your strength of feeling. I do wonder though, how often have you adjusted your view on acceptable language due to posts on this (or other) forum? Has anyone refuted your claim that a word or phrase is unacceptable? Would it be fair for someone to say to Mudsticks that
"it won't make the slightest bit of difference to "your view" because that's obv the only rational and sensible view here, and everyone else is talking utter nonsense."

 

[Fab Foodie]

Sure about what?

That nobody around was upset by 'that kind' of language?

 

[Deleted User]

I see.
Absolutely, the amount of conversations had in our house when the latest 'Scandal' surfaces and how people are too sensitive nowadays I'm pretty sure I know my own families thoughts.

It would be interesting to see what sort of jobs people do who frequent this forum because I believe that has a lot to do with their view of the world, clearly someone dealing with Death/violence or suffering on a daily basis are going to be of a different Ilk to someone who doesn't.

 

[mudsticks]

The world of cyclechat may be entertaining, varied and wise, but it does not contain the whole of human knowledge. So if everyone or noone here agrees with me, I won't take that as my only guidance in life.
I can only tell you what I know: the widespread usage of Drama Queen flowered amidst the 60s gay community. The word "King" was very unlikely to feature in their vernacular.
The other (non-Cyclechat) research dug up the issues around gender stereotypes that you have mentioned; I didn't see any hard evidence, and I assessed the sources. I made a judgement that these issues are not materially affecting the world - just as I judge fans of the Kardassians to be wrong, but harmless, or judge women buying pink bikes as essentially harmless. It's a subjective matter, but I'm currently confident in that view.


Indeed: Some. And can. You're entitled to your view, and I respect your strength of feeling. I do wonder though, how often have you adjusted your view on acceptable language due to posts on this (or other) forum? Has anyone refuted your claim that a word or phrase is unacceptable? Would it be fair for someone to say to Mudsticks that
"it won't make the slightest bit of difference to "your view" because that's obv the only rational and sensible view here, and everyone else is talking utter nonsense."

Yeah this is why i used the word homosexual in my initial answering post - as i guessed that may have been its origin in part - but i suspect that many see the 'Queen' part in Drama Queen as interchangeable to denote either female and or homosexual - and implicitly accept the inferences that flow from that.

The italicised part of mine that you quoted was because you seemed fairly determined of your utter correctness in this matter - but please accept my apologies if it irked you - unnecessarily.

Of course I've adjusted my view, not only on acceptable language, but on many many other matters, having read the offerings on this, and other forums.

I almost can't see the point of being here, if its not to about learning through informative, and enlightening exchanges .

 

[mudsticks]

I see.
Absolutely, the amount of conversations had in our house when the latest 'Scandal' surfaces and how people are too sensitive nowadays I'm pretty sure I know my own families thoughts.

It would be interesting to see what sort of jobs people do who frequent this forum because I believe that has a lot to do with their view of the world, clearly someone dealing with Death/violence or suffering on a daily basis are going to be of a different Ilk to someone who doesn't.

I'm a farmer - death, violence, and suffering - its a daily treadmill..

 

[Deleted User]

I'm a farmer - death, violence, and suffering - its a daily treadmill..

Of animals I assume, some people could have a view on that.

Anyway, this is going nowhere and clearly it's the likes of me that have less to be concerned about with the issue in question so I'll be leaving it there.

Best wishes.

 

[mudsticks]

Of animals I assume, some people could have a view on that.

Anyway, this is going nowhere and clearly it's the likes of me that have less to be concerned about with the issue in question so I'll be leaving it there.

Best wishes.

Just you try rustling my pigs - and we'll soon see about the whole 'excluding violence' against persons part ..

I see, sorry to be hard work.

Different worlds I guess, Dad was a Factory worker, I work in the Rigging industry , Son's a Prison officer and the Missus has recently retired from a 30 yr career as a Theatre Nurse so never really been around people who are upset by the type of phrases we're discussing here.

I genuinely would never have thought calling someone a Drama Queen could be upsetting to anyone other than the person being called it.

Live and learn I guess.

My bold - well this exactly - The question is -

Why should , even those people be offended by being likened to a 'A Queen' of either the homosexual, or female persuasion ??

If being compared with those people were in fact not seen as somehow being less than, or inferior to that which they are ??

The fact that these words are still used as insults, implies that many in society still see being female or gay as 'less than' in some way .