handlebars on fixed and track bikes

[bonj2]

if you scroll down, as one of the bullet points, it says "Average weight: 1284g rear, 1243g front"

 

[kyuss]

That's pretty damned heavy. For comparison a pair of Halo Aerorage Track wheels will cost you £150 (£133 if you get them from Chain Reaction but they don't have stock at the moment) and they weigh in at 980gm for the front and 1045gm for the rear. Not exactly featherweight but that's a whole 1lb lighter and most of that weight loss will be at the rim where it matters most.

The Planet X track wheels look like a bargain at under £100. I know a few people who rate their track hubs as a budget option and the rims are the same as those used on their road wheels which are pretty light and get good reviews. These might even be lighter than the Halo's.

 

[kyuss]

You won't notice 270 g by the time you've put on tyres, tubes and rim tapes. You'd save more weight by taking a leak before you set off - and that won't cost you £200.

I'd disagree with that. If that weight was off the frame I might agree but weight off the wheels is the one place that you really really notice the difference especially if it's at the rims.

A bit of research shows those Weinmann rims to be really really heavy. They are cheap copies of the Rigida DP18 which themselves come in at 570 each which is fairly heavy. A Mavic CXP33 for instance (which is still a fairly deep rim) is almost 100gm lighter.

I couldn't find figures on Weinmann's own site for weights but the hubs used on the Weinmann build are Formula which according to Sheldon are the same as his own brand Harris Cyclery ones coming in at 275 for the front and 330 for the rear. The weights on the Formula site seem to confirm this. Average weight of 64 DT plain gauge spokes going by info from their site is about 320gm, or 160gsm per wheel. Let's be on the safe side and call it 200gm. That means those Weinmann rims are well over 700gm each. I wouldn't like to try and spin those up to speed.

 

[Amanda P]

I bow to your superior knowledge on rims, then, Kyuss.

I hadn't seen the weight figures, but you're right - the difference is over a kilo, and in the rim, where it counts. I thought it was only a couple of hundred grams, which I don't think anyone would really notice, even in rims, unless they were to do a very careful side-by-side road test.

On the other hand, Bonj wanted: cheap, large-flange hubs, black, deep-section rims and radial spokes. I found him four out of five, which ain't bad - and he never said he wanted 'em light as well!

 

[ASC1951]

Right then, gentlemen, my new ti track frame for the road has just arrived from the Chinese People's Bicycle Factory #27, so like Bonj I'm in the market for some wheels.

I've saved enough on the frame to afford some decent wheels, but there is no point me spending £500 on a set of carbon lovelies because I'm not worth it. I just want some stiff light wheels with non-bladed spokes. They would have to be clinchers, I think, because that is all I have ever ridden. [Last month in the Alps people did shout back "Oi! Tubby! Keep pedalling", but I reckon they couldn't possibly have seen my tyres at that distance.]

Any further recommendations?

 

[Christopher]

Someone's bought that Nigel Dean frame that Bonjers refers to in post #11. I wonder who... (not me, too small, don't need but at £75 + postage it was a good deal)

 

[Christopher]

ASC, set of Navigator Pistas? Ribble and others do them, they look pretty good and have good bearings, but have no actual experince of the wheels (I got a cheap 32hh double-fixed hub and built the rear wheel on Maciv Open Sport and use whatever front wheel from the pile that suits what I am going to do).

 

[bonj2]

That's pretty damned heavy. For comparison a pair of Halo Aerorage Track wheels will cost you £150 (£133 if you get them from Chain Reaction but they don't have stock at the moment) and they weigh in at 980gm for the front and 1045gm for the rear. Not exactly featherweight but that's a whole 1lb lighter and most of that weight loss will be at the rim where it matters most.

that's what i thought.

The Planet X track wheels look like a bargain at under £100. I know a few people who rate their track hubs as a budget option and the rims are the same as those used on their road wheels which are pretty light and get good reviews. These might even be lighter than the Halo's.

ok nice one, cheers - i might have a look at those.
All these ideas for make/models to look up are good to hear, thanks.

I obviously need a machined front rim for a braking surface which is the only thing I'd have to watch when looking at track rims.

I'd disagree with that. If that weight was off the frame I might agree but weight off the wheels is the one place that you really really notice the difference especially if it's at the rims.

A bit of research shows those Weinmann rims to be really really heavy. They are cheap copies of the Rigida DP18 which themselves come in at 570 each which is fairly heavy. A Mavic CXP33 for instance (which is still a fairly deep rim) is almost 100gm lighter.

I couldn't find figures on Weinmann's own site for weights but the hubs used on the Weinmann build are Formula which according to Sheldon are the same as his own brand Harris Cyclery ones coming in at 275 for the front and 330 for the rear. The weights on the Formula site seem to confirm this. Average weight of 64 DT plain gauge spokes going by info from their site is about 320gm, or 160gsm per wheel. Let's be on the safe side and call it 200gm. That means those Weinmann rims are well over 700gm each. I wouldn't like to try and spin those up to speed.

I bow to your superior knowledge on rims, then, Kyuss.

I hadn't seen the weight figures, but you're right - the difference is over a kilo, and in the rim, where it counts. I thought it was only a couple of hundred grams, which I don't think anyone would really notice, even in rims, unless they were to do a very careful side-by-side road test.

On the other hand, Bonj wanted: cheap, large-flange hubs, black, deep-section rims and radial spokes. I found him four out of five, which ain't bad - and he never said he wanted 'em light as well!

to be fair to Phil I did come over a bit confusing then move the goal posts when i said I wanted them light. I posted a thread on londonfgss and they instantly told me that "light" and "deep section" is an oxymoron.
I just thought deep section might be nice but for no other reason than they 'look bling'. So given that light weight is more important for me really, the requirement for deep sections is somewhat out the window now...

cheers for the advice kyuss and phil.

 

[ASC1951]

ASC, set of Navigator Pistas? Ribble and others do them, they look pretty good and have good bearings

Sensible price, too. Unfortunately the rims are not machined according to Ribble.

Bonj may be able to just use his muscles but I need front and back brakes on the road.

 

[kyuss]

I bow to your superior knowledge on rims, then, Kyuss.

Sorry, I didn't mean to come over all knowledgable. Just I've taken a bit of an interest in fixed wheelsets recently as I've got a cheap fixie on the way which will no doubt need the wheels changed sooner rather than later so I've been googling like mad for the last week or so.

You're right as well in saying that 100gm here or there isn't too big a deal, especially if it's for street use where a slightly heavier rim is likely to be stronger anyway. Still wouldn't touch those Weinmann's though, 700gm is just too much.

I reckon handbuilt will be the way to go especially if you really want a radial spoke pattern. Deep section and decent weight isn't impossible but will be expensive. The fakengers favourite Velocity Deep V isn't too heavy but a pair of rims alone will set you back nearly £80 so getting a build in at under £150 will be difficult. I've had my eye on some H+sons rims (scroll down a bit) which are gorgeous, lighter than Deep V and with £50 on some Formula/Ambrosio/System EX/One One hubs I reckon I can get them in at under £180 if I build them myself. Still not cheap though.

Thing is, if these are wheels for an old road frame or classic track bike then I think shallow box section rims will look better anyway and be cheaper and lighter. Deep rims on classic bikes have always looked a bit odd to me.

 

[bonj2]

...

The Planet X track wheels look like a bargain at under £100. I know a few people who rate their track hubs as a budget option and the rims are the same as those used on their road wheels which are pretty light and get good reviews. These might even be lighter than the Halo's.

kyuss - do you think the front one of those planet x track wheels will be ok for a braking surface?

 

[Joe24]

Bonj, get that old frame, put some Velocity Deep V rims on with some high flange hubs, really narrow handlebars that are narrower then your hips, run it brakeless and just use that to get about on. Who will nick that? Bang up the paint on it aswell, make it look real cool
I personally have front and rear brakes on my fixed, there are some big hills around here and if i take it into Derbyshire even bigger. Only use the front at the moment though.

 

[Amanda P]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come over all knowledgable.

No need to apologise for being knowledgeable - especially if you're willing to pass it on to us. As you evidently are.

 

[bonj2]

Bonj, get that old frame, put some Velocity Deep V rims on with some high flange hubs, really narrow handlebars that are narrower then your hips, run it brakeless and just use that to get about on. Who will nick that? Bang up the paint on it aswell, make it look real cool
I personally have front and rear brakes on my fixed, there are some big hills around here and if i take it into Derbyshire even bigger. Only use the front at the moment though.

nah, not narrow handlebars. I've got wide ones on my normal road bike and i like them wide, better breathing. I'm not trying to get through micro small gaps!
I might like some like the ones on this bike though:http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/jessicadyer.jpg

i'm going to take my time on it 'cos it'll end up better that way, and half the fun is in building it!

trust me it'll look cool

re back brake, i only ever use the front on my normal road bike, so i certainly don't see how i'm going to need a back brake on a fixed. I'm half tempted to take the back brake off my road bike - the only time i'm going to need it is if i have to do an emergency stop downhill - but then it's going to be a case of damage limitation rather than damage elimination./..

 

[kyuss]

kyuss - do you think the front one of those planet x track wheels will be ok for a braking surface?

Yep. Both front and rear have a machined breaking surface. As far as I can tell they are the exact same rims that they use on their Model B and Model C road wheelsets.