Helmets and falling off....

Discussion in 'Helmet Discussions' started by Hutch118, 26 Jul 2015.

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  1. ufkacbln

    ufkacbln Guest

    Another Thudguard moment?

    The head of the British Association for Accident and Emergency Medicine (the Professional organisation of Casuaty Dosctors)

    If we accept the advice of a single Doctor as evidence for wearing a helmet, then surely the Thudguard becomes even more important when their professional organisation endorses it?
    mjr and mickle like this.
  2. mjr

    mjr Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next

    Crash helmets seem to be unscrupulous manufacturers harming cycling in order to steal our cake money. ;)
    Last edited: 27 Jul 2015
    User259, Profpointy, mickle and 2 others like this.
  3. mjr

    mjr Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next

    OK, the newspaper article is almost a full house of crash helmet mispromotion bingo right there, including the proponent being a cyclist himself, saying it's a belief and so on and so on... but let's drill down into the key bit quoted:
    I looked that one up and the source seems to be K. Fingleton, M. Gilchrist (2013), UCA Dublin, "A study of the protective capabilities of cycle-helmets in collisions involving motor-vehicles based on computer simulated reconstructions" which doesn't seem to be available online, does it? It doesn't even appear on http://www.ucd.ie/eacollege/mme/staff/academicstaff/professormichaelgilchrist/staff,98866,en.html or http://researchrepository.ucd.ie/browse?type=author&value=Gilchrist, M. D. and there's no Fingleton on their staff list or the author list. UCA is University of Creative Arts, so I suspect that's a typo as there's nothing relevant on http://www.ucreative.ac.uk/ireland - has anyone found this paper?

    Just from the title, I have my doubts about using solely computer simulations for this because a simulation is only as good as the factors it includes and reality has a bad habit of surprising us with effects we hadn't foreseen. Secondly, it sounds like it's only considering head injuries and again only cases where a collision has already happened, not population-level effects.

    However, taking a step back, what does ETSC - the body whose mere citation apparently lends credibility to that research - say are the first things to do to improve cycling safety? 30kmh urban speed limits, best practice guidelines for street design, Intelligent Speed Assist in motor vehicles, various enforcement measures, lower speed limits at junctions, priority maintenance for footways and cycleways (the opposite of most current English policy) ... cyclist crash helmets are only the very last section of http://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/etsc_pin_flash_29_walking_cycling_safer.pdf - let's do the more effective measures first and if it's still not good enough, then consider crash helmets.
    Last edited: 27 Jul 2015
    brodiej, theclaud, TinyMyNewt and 4 others like this.
  4. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    Two seperate pieces.
    The first a piece that gives a fairly unbiased view of helmet usage. Not coming down on either side, as someone else pointed out. The second found on a a quick search for reasons to replace the helmet.
  5. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    The piece was quoted because it says & dealt with secondary impact.
    Helmets do not protect the lower half of the body and will not prevent injury to those areas in a collision.

    You quote out of context from another thread.
  6. mjr

    mjr Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next

    No, I quoted from your out-of-context paste into this thread. :tongue:

    Awfully sorry to raise points you won't answer(!)
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  7. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    Check where it is posted then.
  8. mjr

    mjr Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next

    Yep, it's on page 4 of this thread. What's your point? Are you SURE you don't have lasting damage from crash helmet (ab)use?
  9. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    I've lasting and permanent damage due to epilepsy. I cracked the skull again on the 19th of last month. Before that in Msrch this year.

    If that's a joke to you then I pity you and hope you never have to go through any part of it.
  10. mjr

    mjr Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next

    That's understandable. No joke. Now please would you consider replying to the points in post #69 instead of suggesting that I'm the one who's confused about where you posted it?
  11. Profpointy

    Profpointy Guru

    Umm, I've slightly lost track here but you and classic seemed to be having an argument whilst agreeing with each other - maybe?
  12. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    Awaiting a call back/response from Geraldine Gittens, having just contacted the Irish Independent over your claim that the report mentioned not existing.

    It seems you've found the thread it was posted in and responded there as well.

    If you're serious about it being no joke, I'm out at this point. Disability is no joke mate.
  13. mjr

    mjr Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next

    Or rather, the report that I didn't find and asked if anyone else had. At the moment, I've no reason to doubt that it exists, but I can't comment on it in detail and I'm not sure how anyone can verify any claims made about its content?

    Or rather, I found the other thread you posted it in and just posted a link to here, to try to keep it all together. These are in different places: https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/helmets-and-falling-off.184516/page-4#post-3820673 here and https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/would-any-cycle-helmet-have-helped-here.183987/page-9#post-3818729 there.

    I'm serious that "That's understandable" is no joke. I have been incurably ill (which is officially a disability these days, although I think that's debatable) for a very long time. The main difference seems to be that I accept I'm sick, so I can still joke about such topics.
  14. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    Born and brought up with epilepsy, which I learned to accept years ago. Jokes about it or rather attempted jokes about its impact I never have, and never will.

    This is descending into mudslinging and probably lead to the thread being locked.

    You did try the number in the link you gave I take it? E-mail even. I have and now await a response, from three sources tried. How many have you tried?
  15. classic33

    classic33 Legendary Member

    Certain? Where else on the body are helmets worn
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