Horrible article on Velorution, WTF were they thinking?

[dondare]

why are cockneys in there? Like there's any significant amount of them left in the east end

there in there to be some white/not jewish people that's why

not racist but seems if you even single out ethics for any reason it's seen as racist regardless of why you;'re doing it

Or single out Essex, for that matter.

"London is policed by a bunch of ignorants coming from Essex"

 

[Arch]

Are Jewish drivers more circumspect?

Nice...

I have to say, out here in Provincial (and rather 'white') York, I don't notice much difference in driving from people of different colours or ethnic backgrounds, or from cars registered from overseas. In fact cars registered overseas have a fair chance of being 'better' driven than natives...

 

[dondare]

Nice...

I have to say, out here in Provincial (and rather 'white') York, I don't notice much difference in driving from people of different colours or ethnic backgrounds, or from cars registered from overseas. In fact cars registered overseas have a fair chance of being 'better' driven than natives...

The natives in York are from overseas. They're Vikings.

 

[Cab]

What do you make of this paragraph?

Ill considered, badly written, and provocative. Do you believe its the sort of thing that Bozza would have refrained from saying if he'd thought it prior to becoming mayor? And are you really saying that an influx of visibly ethnic people from a different culture would never cloud popular perceptions of how people looking a certain way may act?

Its phrased terribly, and with the intent of provoking a response. Take it apart though, get through the charger terminology used, and its simply a dreadfully ill considered piece.

 

[Origamist]

And are you really saying that an influx of visibly ethnic people from a different culture would never cloud popular perceptions of how people looking a certain way may act?

No, I have said nothing of the sort, but thanks, yet again, for the misrepresentation. But, "yes", what you say can of course cloud, and in this case, sully perceptions:

dark-skinned immigrants do not cycle and that lowers the standards of the nation.

What about when white Dutch denizens / WASP immigrants don't cycle - surely that lowers the standards of the nation too (in the author's confused thinking)? What's more, "Dark skinned" can encompass a host of different ethnicities - is the common thread that they all simply don't cycle? It's casual racism.

 

[gavintc]

Nice...

I have to say, out here in Provincial (and rather 'white') York, QUOTE]

Except t'other Arch from the Minster.

 

[Riding in Circles]

I see a lot of black and asian people cycling, some of them must be immigrants, this article is diabolical.

 

[tdr1nka]

Rancid piece of unhelpful verbiage.

 

[Arch]

Nice...

I have to say, out here in Provincial (and rather 'white') York,

Except t'other Arch from the Minster.[/QUOTE]

Good point! Thank you. By and large though, there aren't a lot of ethnic minority folk in York - not compared to Leicester where I lived before! Except the Japanese tourists and they are more of a menace on foot than driving, since like all tourists, they are wandering about looking up at the Minster most of the time...

Also, good point about the Vikings, Dondare...

 

[Cab]

No, I have said nothing of the sort, but thanks, yet again, for the misrepresentation.

No, it was a question based on what you said, not a misinterpretation, and I phrased it in such a way that you'd struggle to disagree without going off on a different tangent such as:

But, "yes", what you say can of course cloud, and in this case, sully perceptions:

dark-skinned immigrants do not cycle and that lowers the standards of the nation.

What about when white Dutch denizens / WASP immigrants don't cycle - surely that lowers the standards of the nation too (in the author's confused thinking)? What's more, "Dark skinned" can encompass a host of different ethnicities - is the common thread that they all simply don't cycle? It's casual racism.

If an immigrant group is not visible, then their good or bad behaviour will have no knock on effect on popular perception of how people of that group behave. Or do you think that people just magically know where others come from?

Like it or lump it, visibly ethnic immigrants acting in a particular way will have an impact on how others who look similar may be anticipated to act; that isn't racism, its just how many people are. Do you dispute that?

 

[Notsoblue]

What a ridiculous post. Being of mixed race myself I feel that yes, there are differences between people of differeing backgrounds and trends within particular groupings (ethnic, national etc.). But you can't say that dark skinned foreigners are to blame for attitudes to cyclists on the road, its just ludicrous. Its not racist so much as stupid.

I don't understand the point of the post really, other than to just bad talk recent immigrants of colour.

I find this line particularly confusing

It is a matter of raising standards, by getting rid of those who lower them.

What does this even mean? It sounds like she's advocating ethnic cleansing to improve attitudes to cycling? But that can't really be what she means, right?

 

[TwickenhamCyclist]

Africans, Jews and cockneys don't resepect cyclists.

But she's not racist.

Sheesh, I'd say it would be pretty hard to tell which driver's are Jewish unless you are offered some kind of physical evidence...

Aren’t they the ones with 4 inches chopped of the Volvo’s exhaust ?

……. I’ll get me coat….

 

[Origamist]

No, it was a question based on what you said, not a misinterpretation, and I phrased it in such a way that you'd struggle to disagree without going off on a different tangent such as:?

I asked you to look at the paragraph (I had not made a statement about that paragraph), your over-active imagination conjured up the rest and then produced a strawman question!!

f an immigrant group is not visible, then their good or bad behaviour will have no knock on effect on popular perception of how people of that group behave. Or do you think that people just magically know where others come from?

Like it or lump it, visibly ethnic immigrants acting in a particular way will have an impact on how others who look similar may be anticipated to act; that isn't racism, its just how many people are. Do you dispute that?

Precisely, Cab, it look's like you've put your thinking cap on. The writer is not in a position to generalise (because the full picture is more complex), but does so anyway, on racial grounds.

You are apologising for him saying that's "just how many people are". I'm of the belief that you should challenge this kind of lazy and crude prejudice.

 

[Cab]

I asked you to look at the paragraph (I had not made a statement about that paragraph), your over-active imagination conjured up the rest and then produced a strawman question!!

Yes, a strawman used to demonstrate that your implication could not possibly be what you meant. A strawman argument is only a bad thing when you're unaware of using it or, worse, using it to discredit someones views. Here, it was appropriate to discredit the view you were putting across.

Precisely, Cab, it look's like you've put your thinking cap on. The writer is not in a position to generalise (because the full picture is more complex and possibly unknowable), but does anyway, on racial grounds. You are apologising for him saying that's "just how people are". I'm of the belief that you should challenge this kind of lazy and crude prejudice.

Errm, no, there the writer was referring to what others say, the conclusions others (in Holland) have drawn, with the conversations you encounter.

Like it or lump it, thats how people are. Suppose you're in a town with an influx of people from (x). And they look similar to a subset of people who live in your town already. Suppose that you encounter dangerous behaviour from people who look like (x), say, five times in a week; disproportionate to their number. Are you more wary of people who look like they may be (x) when you see them on the road? Is that lazy prejudice?

To say that visibly ethnic people are dangerous on the roads because of their appearance is dreadful, its racist. But to say that people new to an area may have a different cultural perspective on road safety is in no way racist. To then move on to say that if there is an influx of people with that different cultural perspective, and they're of a visible ethnicity, that people will be more wary on the roads around people who look that way... Well, like it or lump it, thats how people will act. The solution? Address the cultural differences that make integrating new immigrant communities difficult.

 

[Cab]

What does this even mean? It sounds like she's advocating ethnic cleansing to improve attitudes to cycling? But that can't really be what she means, right?

I tend to think that her article is far more dreadfully written than it is malicious.