Leaking tubeless system - should the bike shop fix it?

[hatler]

Tubeless ready rims have holes in them for easy access to the spoke nipples and assembly. They therefore need a airtight rim tape to be applied. If you don’t want to go through that then you want tubeless rims. Similar difference between tubeless ready tyres and tubeless tyres. The former isn’t airtight the latter is.

The above easily found out via a quick search , sorry I meant research

How do you make tubeless ready tyres airtight ? And if they're not airtight, how can they ever work as tubeless?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

How do you make tubeless ready tyres airtight ? And if they're not airtight, how can they ever work as tubeless?

Sealant

 

[hatler]

Assumptions are the mother of all f*** ups. Now you know why that is.

And there's a difference between 'presume' (the word I used) and 'assume', the word you used.

A piling company I worked for very carefully worded all their standard contract documentation to use the word 'presume' rather than 'assume' when it came to describing ground conditions.

Use of 'presume' enabled them to charge for obstructions, different ground conditions and the like. 'Assume' didn't, as one of their founding partners found out to his previous company's cost.

 

[hatler]

Sealant

Aha ! So, tubeless tyres come with sealant applied ?

 

[Deleted member 121159]

Aha ! So, tubeless tyres come with sealant applied ?

Sounds like Ming the Merciless is on about the UST system. But I thought the tyres are the same across regular tubeless and UST, the difference being how spoke holes are sealed.

 

[Deleted member 121159]

And there's a difference between 'presume' (the word I used) and 'assume', the word you used.

A piling company I worked for very carefully worded all their standard contract documentation to use the word 'presume' rather than 'assume' when it came to describing ground conditions.

Use of 'presume' enabled them to charge for obstructions, different ground conditions and the like. 'Assume' didn't, as one of their founding partners found out to his previous company's cost.

I think you are right there.

Presume: 'to believe something to be true because it is very likely, although you are not certain'

Assume: 'to accept something to be true without question or proof'

Surely one can believe that wheels called tubeless ready are very likely to be ready for tubeless although, as it has turned out, one can't be certain!

However, I admit I assumed my wheels would be ready for tubeless, because why shouldn't I? I normally accept descriptions of bike components to be true without question or proof. If my frame says it's aluminium, I believe that, and if my tyre says it's 28mm wide, I believe that too. I don't go about seeking proof that it's aluminium or measure my tyres with calipers.

 

[chriswoody]

The yellow tape looks like Stans tubeless tape. It certainly works if two wraps done properly. The valve hole shouldn’t matter as you need that with tubes or tubeless. You can get different tubeless valves, I find those with the rectangular rubber seal better.

I put those photos up to illustrate what I encountered when I removed the tires for the first time when making the switch to tubeless and the confusion I had over the rim tape. What I find illuminating is the fact that several posters now have commentated on the yellow tape and how it looks to be tubeless tape, I also thought the same and tried to use it and soon discovered that it wouldn't hold air. This was no stress, because I'd actually purchased a conversion kit which had tape as well as tubeless valves in it. Once I'd removed the yellow tape and used one wrap of the green tape it all worked perfectly and has continued to work perfectly since.

 

[fair weather cyclist]

If I'd bought 'tubeless ready wheels' I would presume that anything they came with (and that includes rim tape) would be, err, well, ready for tubeless tyres.

Yes, I find this odd as well.

In my experience (although limited) when I bought wheels that were marked as "tubeless ready", such wheels would come with tubeless rim tape already. For wheels that require you to put the tape yourself, I've seen them marked as "tubeless compatible" but never tubeless ready.

 

[Dogtrousers]

As I understand it:
Tubeless ready (rims) = taped ready to go. Just add valve, tyres, sealant and swearing and eventually you will be good to go.
Tubeless compatible (rims) = bring your own rim tape. Convert to tubeless ready. Then add valve, tyre and sealant.
Tubeless (tyres) should work with tubeless ready rims of appropriate width.

By this definition the OP would have been justified in expecting tubeless rim tape on a "tubeless ready" rim. But good luck to anyone trying to find an authoritative definition of these terms.

There's a general standardisation problem with tubeless. This includes but extends beyond woolly terms like "tubeless", "tubeless ready" and "tubeless compatible" to cover the actual rim designs, hookless etc. It means that there's always going to be a nagging doubt whether particular tyres will work with particular rims.

 

[Alex321]

As I understand it:
Tubeless ready (rims) = taped ready to go. Just add valve, tyres, sealant and swearing and eventually you will be good to go.
Tubeless compatible (rims) = bring your own rim tape. Convert to tubeless ready. Then add valve, tyre and sealant.
Tubeless (tyres) should work with tubeless ready rims of appropriate width.

By this definition the OP would have been justified in expecting tubeless rim tape on a "tubeless ready" rim. But good luck to anyone trying to find an authoritative definition of these terms.

There's a general standardisation problem with tubeless. This includes but extends beyond woolly terms like "tubeless", "tubeless ready" and "tubeless compatible" to cover the actual rim designs, hookless etc. It means that there's always going to be a nagging doubt whether particular tyres will work with particular rims.

I've never seen that sort of definition before, and have always thought of "tubeless compatible" and "tubeless ready" as more or less synonyms.

Maybe my views have been coloured by having watched a few videos on installing tubeless before I went for it, and every single one says that if there is rim tape already present when first installing, then remove it first, and install fresh.

So I genuinely would not have expected "tubeless ready" to come with pre-installed tubeless rim tape. Not that it is relevant in my case, since there was nothing in the advertising for my bike which stated tubeless ready (but they do work fine with tubeless after removing existing rim tape and adding fresh).

 

[fair weather cyclist]

I've never seen that sort of definition before, and have always thought of "tubeless compatible" and "tubeless ready" as more or less synonyms.

And that's the root of the problem, really. They're not synonyms.

Who is to blame, difficult to say.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I've never seen that sort of definition before, and have always thought of "tubeless compatible" and "tubeless ready" as more or less synonyms.

A quick google throws up a couple of sites (there are many others) that make an attempt at definition. However the Bike Radar site does admit that they are not well defined.

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/tubeless/

Tubeless-ready vs. tubeless compatible​

These terms are sometimes used interchangeably and don’t have standardised definitions.​

​

For some brands, a tubeless-ready rim is exactly that, and all you need to do is insert a valve (which may or may not be included with the wheels), fit an appropriate tyre and add sealant.​

​

If a wheel is described as tubeless-compatible, it’s likely you’ll also need to fit tubeless tape to seal the rim.​

https://mercury.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/206240747-FAQ-Tubeless-Compatibility-and-Set-up-Tips

Are your wheels tubeless compatible? ​

​

Yes! We are tubeless compatible, but not tubeless ready. Whats the difference, you ask? Being tubeless ready means you don't have to install anything except a tubeless valve. To be tubeless compatible means our rims will work as a tubeless system, but you need to install tubeless rim tape and valve. ​

If you google hard enough you will probably be able to find conflicting and contradictory definitions. So I'm not saying that there is a single standard universally accepted set of definitions, cos there isn't.

There are also UST rims that don't have spoke holes in the rim bed at all so don't need taping. So I think these are sometimes just called "tubeless".

Also (and I can't be arsed to google it) I've seen the a similar distinction applied to tyres, with "tubeless" tyres being ones that have a bead and construction suitable for tubeless use and are impermeable so you don't need sealant to keep them inflated, and "tubeless ready" ones that have suitable bead and construction but need sealant in order to stay inflated.

This would mean that a "tubeless" rim (UST, no spoke holes) and a "tubeless" tyre (impermeable) could work together with nothing needing to be added. No sealant, no tape (OK, a valve is required). Anything with "compatible" in the name would mean it would work with a bit of faff (taping the rim) anything with "ready" in the name would work but would need an extra ingredient (sealant). Kinda makes sense.

 

[rivers]

I won't keep banging on the same point I've already made several times about what tubeless ready means.

However I did some research and a lot of manufacturers do provide tubeless ready wheels with tubeless tape.

'Fulcrum®’s “Tubeless Ready” products are ready for this changeover, with tape already in place.'

'ASM versions come tubeless ready, equipped with tubeless tape and valves.' (DT Swiss)

'Included | Tubeless tape & valves, spare spokes, axle adapters' (Hunt)

'Tubeless compatible (Valve and Tape supplied)' (Hope)

'Includes Bontrager TLR rim strip, TLR valve stem, internal cam quick release' (Bontrager)

But what brand of wheels do you have?

 

[Deleted member 121159]

But what brand of wheels do you have?

None of the above. It's a Cube bike and the wheels are branded Cube but made by Alexrims. I have emailed them about it. Will give an update once I hear back from them.

 

[rivers]

None of the above. It's a Cube bike and the wheels are branded Cube but made by Alexrims. I have emailed them about it. Will give an update once I hear back from them.

Ahh, the wheels came on a bike. None of the "tubeless ready" wheels that have come on a bike I've bought have come with tubeless tape or valves (including on bikes that have come with slightly higher end wheels than yours). I've always had to purchase those separately. You are laying the fault with your LBS unfairly (although that has already been established).
Cropped photo from bike purchase this summer. You can see I had to buy tubeless tape and valves.