Left turn alarm on lorries

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deptfordmarmoset

Full time tea drinker
Location
Armonmy Way
Why would that stop you riding?
If the driver is exonerated for being unable to see what they're doing, the victim stands no chance other than luck. If the headphone wearer is vilified for not being able to hear what the killers all around might do, then I believe the balance is in the rider's disfavour. If that's accepted by the courts as some kind of ''I couldn't see what I was doing'' defence, then I don't want to be a statistical loser in a pre-weighted battle. I don't want to be a soundbite for a politician's belated interest, or collateral damage in the KSI figures for London.
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
If the driver is exonerated for being unable to see what they're doing, the victim stands no chance other than luck. If the headphone wearer is vilified for not being able to hear what the killers all around might do, then I believe the balance is in the rider's disfavour. If that's accepted by the courts as some kind of ''I couldn't see what I was doing'' defence, then I don't want to be a statistical loser in a pre-weighted battle. I don't want to be a soundbite for a politician's belated interest, or collateral damage in the KSI figures for London.
I understand what you are saying totally. It's a pretty tough decision to decide not to ride again though. But I do understand.
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
2833331 said:
How about you just deal with the question, rather than the avenues for ducking it.
I refuse to lower myself to your level and be drawn into calling each other names. I am a better person than you, obviously.
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
2833355 said:
You are a twat who has made a dispicable assertion about some people killed whilst going about their lives and who is now weaseling out of talking about that. Whether or not I am even worse is of no consequence.
Adrian, you seem to have a lot of pent up anger there. And your use of derogatory language towards me isn't nice atall. But I will not rise to it.
Swear at me as much as you like, it will only be you that pays the consequences.
I do get the impression that you are not a very nice man to know. Do you live alone by any chance?
 

buggi

Bird Saviour
Location
Solihull
Just because a cyclist rides up the side of a lorry doesn't make them stupid, it makes them inexperienced. everyone makes mistakes, and more so are made in this scenario because there is often a nicely painted cycle lane inviting the inexperienced cyclist into it. Often young people (and particularly girls i think) and those that don't drive do not understand the turning circle of large vehicles. And having done it once, and nothing untoward happens, they continue to do it blissfully unaware of the danger. No one goes out the house in the morning to die and no one goes out the house meaning to kill. But the responsibility is always on any driver to take more care around road users more vulnerable than themselves, whether that be a car driver or lorry driver. Inexperienced cyclists do not deserve to die because they chose, legally, to ride up the inside of a lorry and the driver, for whatever reason, does not see them (be it his mistake or not) and neither should the driver have to suffer the trauma, which is why everything should be done to reduce these terrible accidents. If that means debating whether to install camera's, sensors or audible alarms whilst taking into account all angles/circumstances, then so be it.

The bottom line is, it's not illegal to either filter or wear headphones, and although opinions will always vary, just as with helmets, the fact remains that this scenario exists and therefore should be considered when debating what equipment to install. And if a company install a £600 system that fails because the cyclist doesn't hear it then it is, literally, a waste of money. I do think however, as stated earlier by another poster, that the alarm is very loud so likely to be heard by someone wearing headphones.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
If you don't ride up the inside of HGV's you won't get squashed. What part of that don't you get?
I had right of way, legally, and still ended up under one.
Driver & vehicle cut across the road, tightening his turn as he pulled out from the factory yard. Even stationary I'd have stood no chance of avoiding the trailer. And I was in front of him, head on.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
You're just quoting people that have died. I know this![/quote]
Have I missed something or have posts been deleted?
Can you explain how you quote someone who has died?
 

classic33

Leg End Member
I'm trying to work out who else has/had the same style of posting as roadrider48. And not for the first time either.

Rough cost for the equipment to become compulsory if Labour win the next General Election.
Figures given for typical 18-tonner.
Reversing Alarm: £130.
Rear-view Camera: £450.
Flashing Lights & Beacons: £650.
Daytime Running Lights: £350.
Class VI(Cyclops) Mirror: £25.
Rear Warning Signs For Cyclists: £3
The above to be fitted within a month of the election, the following by December 2017.
Side Underrun Guards: N/A.
Blind Spot Elimination Devices: £450.
Audible Warning For Cyclists: £130.
Comes to about £2,200.
An Artic would cost disproportionately more & Tipper Operators can add a further £2,500 for Side Underrun Bars & Sheeting System.

Uncertainty yet as to wether the beacons will be required to be on at all times. If so what about vehicles already oblliged to have these fitted & in operation when on the road.
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
I'm trying to work out who else has/had the same style of posting as roadrider48. And not for the first time either.

Rough cost for the equipment to become compulsory if Labour win the next General Election.
Figures given for typical 18-tonner.
Reversing Alarm: £130.
Rear-view Camera: £450.
Flashing Lights & Beacons: £650.
Daytime Running Lights: £350.
Class VI(Cyclops) Mirror: £25.
Rear Warning Signs For Cyclists: £3
The above to be fitted within a month of the election, the following by December 2017.
Side Underrun Guards: N/A.
Blind Spot Elimination Devices: £450.
Audible Warning For Cyclists: £130.
Comes to about £2,200.
An Artic would cost disproportionately more & Tipper Operators can add a further £2,500 for Side Underrun Bars & Sheeting System.

Uncertainty yet as to wether the beacons will be required to be on at all times. If so what about vehicles already oblliged to have these fitted & in operation when on the road.
What are you talking about? Waffling on about nothing.
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
I had right of way, legally, and still ended up under one.
Driver & vehicle cut across the road, tightening his turn as he pulled out from the factory yard. Even stationary I'd have stood no chance of avoiding the trailer. And I was in front of him, head on.
I am sorry to hear about your accident.
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
Just because a cyclist rides up the side of a lorry doesn't make them stupid, it makes them inexperienced. everyone makes mistakes, and more so are made in this scenario because there is often a nicely painted cycle lane inviting the inexperienced cyclist into it. Often young people (and particularly girls i think) and those that don't drive do not understand the turning circle of large vehicles. And having done it once, and nothing untoward happens, they continue to do it blissfully unaware of the danger. No one goes out the house in the morning to die and no one goes out the house meaning to kill. But the responsibility is always on any driver to take more care around road users more vulnerable than themselves, whether that be a car driver or lorry driver. Inexperienced cyclists do not deserve to die because they chose, legally, to ride up the inside of a lorry and the driver, for whatever reason, does not see them (be it his mistake or not) and neither should the driver have to suffer the trauma, which is why everything should be done to reduce these terrible accidents. If that means debating whether to install camera's, sensors or audible alarms whilst taking into account all angles/circumstances, then so be it.

The bottom line is, it's not illegal to either filter or wear headphones, and although opinions will always vary, just as with helmets, the fact remains that this scenario exists and therefore should be considered when debating what equipment to install. And if a company install a £600 system that fails because the cyclist doesn't hear it then it is, literally, a waste of money. I do think however, as stated earlier by another poster, that the alarm is very loud so likely to be heard by someone wearing headphones.
That's quite a good post....I like that!
 

Roadrider48

Voice of the people
Location
Londonistan
You're just quoting people that have died. I know this!
Have I missed something or have posts been deleted?
Can you explain how you quote someone who has died?[/quote]
I don't know, did you miss something?
I am not obliged to explain anything to you. You are another of these "usual suspects"
 
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