Magner's cider.

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vernon

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
c2c said:
At the beginning of your statement should you perhaps have put, "In my opinion", or are you suitably qualified to state the above.
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Are you being deliberately obtuse?

I used to have a girlfriend as contrary as you.

i dumped her. :bicycle:
 
Flying_Monkey

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
c2c said:
At the beginning of your statement should you perhaps have put, "In my opinion", or are you suitably qualified to state the above.
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Actually I am! I'm a Professor of Sociology. :bicycle:

What I wrote was hardly uncontroversial. And you will note that I am not actually saying that it is ethically better, merely pointing out that we all like to believe that we somehow make our choices free of any influence and don't like to be told that we do not. However this is a fiction (which marketing has also had a hand in creating). It's interesting to compare this to Japan where people just 'chose' to drink the company beer (or the one associated with whichever company they work for). And believe me that enjoy it just as much as someone in Britain who has 'chosen' to drink Magners. Both are, in the end safe social (and socialized) choices.
 
T

trustysteed

Guest
Like the taste of a particular drink? Yes

Care what other people think about what you drink? No

That's all you need to know.
 
philipbh

philipbh

Spectral Cyclist
Location
Out the back
Flying_Monkey said:
It's interesting to compare this to Japan where people just 'chose' to drink the company beer (or the one associated with whichever company they work for). And believe me that enjoy it just as much as someone in Britain who has 'chosen' to drink Magners. Both are, in the end safe social (and socialized) choices.
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In my opinion - you can compare these two scenarios, but are they really comparable?

The company beer drinkers motivated by benefitting the company by consuming the company product (just as Warren Buffet ecourages Berkshire Hatahway shareholders to buy products from B/H group companies)

The Magner's drinkers being tempted by the advertising to try cider with ice as a "long" drink and finding that they like the taste (even though it may run contrary to the cider connoisseur's opinion on how the drink should be served)
 
snapper_37

snapper_37

Barbara Woodhouse's Love Child
Location
Wolves
Well I like a Merrydown Vintage Dry cider. Cheap as chips and hits the spot on a sunny day..... In fact ;) :ohmy:
 
pubrunner

pubrunner

Legendary Member
Flying_Monkey said:
Or on the other hand, some people don't like to admit that they aren't the heroic individuals making free choices that they imagine themselves to be and are in fact the victims of marketing. Taste is constructed through culture, family, peer-groups and yes, media. It isn't just 'natural'. We learn to like what we like, and we can learn to like different, and yes, better (in the sense of more complex, sophisticated) things. Such things also tend to involve passion, skill and craft in the making - and not just in the selling.
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In my experience, this is pretty much on the mark.

When we bought our pub thirty years ago, it was especially noticeable that most of our customers at that time* had a very strong tendency to drink whatever was being heavily advertised on television. * Until we educated them ;)

As FM mentions above, the media & marketing plays a massive part in influencing drinking habits.

I've seen many trends come & go; Magners being one of the most recent. Going back, anyone remember "Double Diamond Works Wonders . . . so drink some today", "Whitbread 'Big Head', Trophy Bitter . . the pint that thinks its a quart"; "Castlemaine 4X - Australians wouldn't give a 4X for anything else" - brought out about the same time as the Crocodile Dundee films, when all things Australian were 'cool'. And there are many more . . . Anyone remember Newquay Steam Beer ? (That was rather better than the others that I've mentioned).

When we took over our pub, we found that the previous landlord had been selling two keg beers - Border Bitter and Tartan Bitter. Actually, we soon discovered that he was selling only Border Bitter - through a Border Bitter font at 50p a pint and through a Tartan Bitter font at 53p a pint. And the customers never realised !

We soon ditched the 'Tartan Bitter' and decided to sell a Real Ale alongside the Border Bitter. The introduction of a solitary handpump caused considerable interest; we 'worked' on getting the customers to move away from the keg bitter and the lager. We would give the customers a taste of the Real Ale; this would then be followed by a taste of the keg stuff. Having had the keg sample, every customer would say "But that tastes of nothing"

We would say, "Why do you drink it then ?"

Ultimately, we ended up selling 6 Real Ales and no keg bitters. We also kicked out all the lagers and replaced them with Bitburger lager which is brewed to meet the requirements of the German Purity Law. Originally passed in 1516, this law stipulates that you can only use water, yeast, barley, hops and hop products. In other words, none of the additives that are used in the keg bitters and most lagers. I like to know what I'm drinking, don't you ?

(Interestingly, I had a dog which featured on 'That's Life' in 1983. He often performed his trick in which we would lay out 6 - 12 bowls on the floor; one would contain Real Ale, the other stuff was keg stuff/shandy/bottled beers etc. He always went for the Real Ale. And he wasn't 'trained' to do it; it wasn't a 'trick'. What was it in those other drinks that he didn't like ?)

We also stopped selling keg Strongbow and replaced it with Westons Cider & Dunkerton's Cider. Again, we offered samples to the customers. Hard to believe, but true; one of our customers didn't like the 'real' ciders because of the smell. She told us that they smelt of . . . 'apples'. Profit wise; we made less on the 'real' ciders, 'cos people would drink less of it - 'cos it is stronger.

But consider the differences between these:

Magners - made from frozen concentrated apple juices (From many sources, incorporating many varieties of apple) & add a good dose of chemicals - especially plenty of those which ensure a good shelf life. Oh yes, add plenty of water. It is a very quick process to make. Millions spent on advertising.

Westons - cider made from 'proper' cider apples grown in own orchards. If short of apples, they will only buy the correct apples from certified organic sources. Westons do 'water down' some of their ciders to meet customer requirements. But no chemicals/additives thank you very much. Virtually nil spent on advertising.

Dunkerton's - same process as Westons. Each variety of cider apple is fermented separately, stored and blended a year after pressing. The manufacture is a slow process, immense skill is needed to keep the cider in good condition and blending thereafter. Unusually, Dunkerton's do not 'water down' any of their ciders; you get them at the strength at which they are 'brewed out'. This means that you will be unlikely to find it under 7% abv. Advertising ? what's that ?

It seems odd in a way; through selling only Real Ale, Real Cider and Real Lager (as they have existed for centuries), we had our own (very successful) niche market - the widest choice for many miles around. We weren't doing anything 'clever', just selling 'natural' stuff. Yet so many pubs (the majority) carry on selling the same old 'creamflow', 'smoothflow', etc. etc.

To give an analogy, how many of you would be happy to go to a 'proper' coffee shop if you found it only sold Instant coffee ?

Yes, I can see why a cold Magners might be an okay drink on a very hot day; but if you really want to drink a cider that you can taste, search out a bottle of Weston's Old Rosie or Dunkerton's Black Fox. The Dunkerton's still varieties are also superb; why not try one ? Bung in a couple of ice cubes if you must; it will still be much nicer than a Magners.
 
U

User169

Guest
pubrunner said:
We also kicked out all the lagers and replaced them with Bitburger lager which is brewed to meet the requirements of the German Purity Law. Originally passed in 1516, this law stipulates that you can only use water, yeast, barley, hops and hop products. [/B]
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Minor point, but the original form of the Rheinheitsgebot didn't allow yeast (because it hadn't been discovered)!

To initiate fermentation, a portion of previously brewed beer (containing yeast) was added.
 
pubrunner

pubrunner

Legendary Member
Delftse Post said:
Minor point, but the original form of the Rheinheitsgebot didn't allow yeast (because it hadn't been discovered)!

To initiate fermentation, a portion of previously brewed beer (containing yeast) was added.
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That's correct, yeast wasn't discovered for a few hundred years. But as I'm sure you appreciate, the Reinheitsgebot was devised to ensure that beer had to be sold in an unadulterated form; many hundreds of years on, Magners does not come into that category.

Such is 'progress'.
 
Debian

Debian

New Member
Location
West Midlands
pubrunner said:
In my experience, this is pretty much on the mark.

When we bought our pub thirty years ago, it was especially noticeable that most of our customers at that time* had a very strong tendency to drink whatever was being heavily advertised on television. * Until we educated them ;)

SNIP.....
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Excellent post!! It hits the spot.
 
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