Moaning About Petrol Prices Again

[Dan B]

Increasing the cost of car ownership inevitably hits poorer people hardest and affects people living in rural areas to a greater extent but subsidies and unequal taxation is unsustainable, surely eventually people will be forced to make choices about where they can afford to live, work and socialise based on transport availability which will force people to adjust their lifestyles to use public transport and encourage alternative methods?

Yes, but the key word there is "eventually" - we're not talking about the families of five deciding to uproot, we're talking about where the kids go when they've grown up and want jobs. In the short term, surely it's better to change the behaviours that can easily be changed?

Wouldn't urban road pricing and taxing city parking tend to move jobs and people out of town centres with no obvious benefit for either.

I don't know, but I live in London and it doesn't seem to have had that effect here.

(I noticed we both used the word "surely" there. Not sure what that says ;-)

 

[Archie_tect]

I presume London is a special case as public transport and the urban mass is so centralised, and where that happens in conurbations people who can survive without a car already do without one.

[Edit: ...and stop calling me Shirley].

 

[Glow worm]

Irrespective of your views on the cost of fuel, there are an awful lot of fat, lazy bar stewards out there who simply can't be arsed to use anything but their cars for often the most absurdly short journeys. Change these folks minds (expose them for a day to the sweet freedom and joy of the bicycle for example!) and life would be a lot better and healthier for all of us.

 

[Piemaster]

Well, that's exactly my point!!!! I get the performance of a top-end sports car for the fuel economy of a granny car and I don't get stuck in traffic jams! And I don't have a sports bike ... they do just drink petrol.

Errr..yes. So it was. .
(Note to self. Read all of post before replying)

The sports bikes are phenomenal things though - I've got a couple of mates with them. Fastest way of travel between petrol stations.

 

[Peteaud]

The fact is, its an unfair tax.

It does not bother the rich, they can afford it, so they will still buy the 6.0l V8 Merc or Aston. THe normal man in the street however gets hammered.

If you have a big powerful gas guzzler, dont moan.

I cant change my job (yet) and i get more mpg out of my car than the manufacturers claim but i get to pay the government for the joy of having a job that i have to drive to. This is going to go up, that means less disposable income, which in turn means i dont spend at the shops. multiply this by a few million and is it any wonder why the high streets dead.

Bring petrol down and tax the hell out of gas guzzlers. Any car imho over 2.0l should have a road tax of £1000 minimum. 3.0L £2k, 4.0L £3k etc, and make the company car driver pay higher tax for them as well. As for 6.0L Aston Martins i would tax them £10k a year and make them have a sign saying "I drive this car due to having a small penis" in the back in bright green neon.


How many reps drive big BMWs or Mercs and no one ever sits in the back, or even the passenger seat??

 

[MrGrumpy]

I presume you mean new cars with that tax regime oh and for the record a work colleague has a new BMW 2.0l diesel and his road tax just went up £20 to £20

. I take your point though but unfortunately those folk running about in beamers and mercs can well afford any tax of that region I suspect.

 

[oldfatfool]

If we get a mass shift from private cars to bicycles, then we can spend less on congestion, policing, health care, emergency services, road building, air quality controls...

And if everyone stops smoking we will no longer need the health service.

 

[XmisterIS]

The fact is, its an unfair tax.

It does not bother the rich, they can afford it, so they will still buy the 6.0l V8 Merc or Aston. THe normal man in the street however gets hammered.

If you have a big powerful gas guzzler, dont moan.

I cant change my job (yet) and i get more mpg out of my car than the manufacturers claim but i get to pay the government for the joy of having a job that i have to drive to. This is going to go up, that means less disposable income, which in turn means i dont spend at the shops. multiply this by a few million and is it any wonder why the high streets dead.

Bring petrol down and tax the hell out of gas guzzlers. Any car imho over 2.0l should have a road tax of £1000 minimum. 3.0L £2k, 4.0L £3k etc, and make the company car driver pay higher tax for them as well. As for 6.0L Aston Martins i would tax them £10k a year and make them have a sign saying "I drive this car due to having a small penis" in the back in bright green neon.


How many reps drive big BMWs or Mercs and no one ever sits in the back, or even the passenger seat??

Unfortunately, that's the way with most taxation - the people at the bottom who have nothing don't get taxed and the people at the top don't care about tax because they're rich. It's the people in the middle who end up taking it on the chin, and the people towards the bottom of the middle that get hit hardest.


Consider the banking crisis for example - we're all having to pay eye-watering taxes and take vicious cuts to our public services (which have come down like a hammer-blow on the most needy and vulnerable at the bottom of society) while the @rseholes responsible get off scot free and get to keep their £billions.

 

[Cletus Van Damme]

why is it that when something IS expensive ( like fuel), after a while the media finds all sort of reason to try and prove that it is not expensive after all. Who are they kidding? Fuel is expensive. electricity is expensive, gas is expensive, food is expensive, water is expensive and dont you think otherwise.
And it all started when some idiot decided that the climate was warming up and we were to blame!!!

I totally agree, and it is not just down to a green tax it is also down to greedy energy companies that make lots of pofit anyway deciding to shaft us some more.

I have a 9 year old Focus 1.6 petrol that has only done 44k and the robbing b@stards charge £245 VED for such a normal low powered car. I guess it is up to me to sell it, stump loads more cash for a newer greener car with cheaper VED and better economy although I do very little mileage. I already pay more tax as it is shoot on petrol at the pumps. I would guess that people with lots of money under the conservative goverment do not have the same worries as a middle of the road pleb like me, Seems to be whom this goverment looks after, then again we should of learned from the past (I did not vote them, and never have).

 

[dellzeqq]

The fact is, its an unfair tax.

It does not bother the rich, they can afford it, so they will still buy the 6.0l V8 Merc or Aston. THe normal man in the street however gets hammered.

If you have a big powerful gas guzzler, dont moan.

I cant change my job (yet) and i get more mpg out of my car than the manufacturers claim but i get to pay the government for the joy of having a job that i have to drive to. This is going to go up, that means less disposable income, which in turn means i dont spend at the shops. multiply this by a few million and is it any wonder why the high streets dead.

Bring petrol down and tax the hell out of gas guzzlers. Any car imho over 2.0l should have a road tax of £1000 minimum. 3.0L £2k, 4.0L £3k etc, and make the company car driver pay higher tax for them as well. As for 6.0L Aston Martins i would tax them £10k a year and make them have a sign saying "I drive this car due to having a small penis" in the back in bright green neon.


How many reps drive big BMWs or Mercs and no one ever sits in the back, or even the passenger seat??

I'm sorry, but there's no sympathy from this quarter at all. If you take on a long commute you know what you're letting yourself in for.

 

[dellzeqq]

I totally agree, and it is not just down to a green tax it is also down to greedy energy companies that make lots of pofit anyway deciding to shaft us some more.

I have a 9 year old Focus 1.6 petrol that has only done 44k and the robbing b@stards charge £245 VED for such a normal low powered car. I guess it is up to me to sell it, stump loads more cash for a newer greener car with cheaper VED and better economy although I do very little mileage. I already pay more tax as it is shoot on petrol at the pumps. I would guess that people with lots of money under the conservative goverment do not have the same worries as a middle of the road pleb like me, Seems to be whom this goverment looks after, then again we should of learned from the past (I did not vote them, and never have).

I'm sorry, but nine years ago we all knew what was going to happen to fuel prices.

 

[jonesy]

as the estimable Jonesy always says - the size of cars suggests that petrol is too cheap

I was thinking of posting something here only to find you and User482 have already said it for me!

But that's the point, isn't it: if something is cheap enough to waste then it isn't expensive, by any definition. Cars that are too big (I have to cycle through Wokingham on my commute, what could be a nice market town jammed bumper to bumper with ludicrous humungous 4x4s), cars driven too fast, unnecessary journeys. Any reduction in fuel tax gives the greatest benefit to those who consume the most, a whopping subsidy from the least well off to people commuting from rural areas where they've helped price local people out of housing...

 

[jonesy]

...

Wouldn't urban road pricing and taxing city parking tend to move jobs and people out of town centres with no obvious benefit for either.

There is a risk of that, parking taxes would also have to be levied on out-of-town parking as well to ensure a level playing field. But last time a parking tax on retail was suggested (anyone remember the Integrated Transport white paper these days?) it was swiftly squashed by the lobbying power of the big supermarkets. A big pity, because parking taxes are a very well targeted form of transport tax, not only raising money most directly from those causing congestion which can be used to fund local transport improvements (e.g. Nottingham tram from its workplace parking levy) but also discouraging people from parking in city centres helps free up the roads for buses so as to provide an alternative.

 

[Archie_tect]

Completely agree Jonesy, I've been pressing for the re-introduction of public transport integration since the demise of the PTE Integrated Service in Newcastle. It linked the whole of the Tyne and Wear region so that one ticket got you from Sunderland through to Gosforth and North Tyneside using the Metro and local buses. A fine system that was decimated by privatisation and deregulation of the bus service leading to chaos, empty buses, routes cut and duplication.

 

[MarkF]

If you have a big powerful gas guzzler, dont moan.

I cant change my job (yet) and i get more mpg out of my car than the manufacturers claim but i get to pay the government for the joy of having a job that i have to drive to. This is going to go up, that means less disposable income, which in turn means i dont spend at the shops. multiply this by a few million and is it any wonder why the high streets dead.

Bring petrol down and tax the hell out of gas guzzlers. Any car imho over 2.0l should have a road tax of £1000 minimum. 3.0L £2k, 4.0L £3k etc, and make the company car driver pay higher tax for them as well. As for 6.0L Aston Martins i would tax them £10k a year and make them have a sign saying "I drive this car due to having a small penis" in the back in bright green neon.


How many reps drive big BMWs or Mercs and no one ever sits in the back, or even the passenger seat??

What load of crap, me me me!

I work for myself (through choice) and earn way less than the "average" UK wage. In my job I need a 4x4 and not a pansy push-button one, I need a proper do manly one. I can't afford a Landcruiser or Range Rover so use a Jeep Cherokee, 4.0L............... 15mpg, it's essential. However, I only do maybe 2k (max) miles a year, I cycle when the 4x4 is not absolutely neccessary.

I'd like to have a comparison of our "green" credentials. How many miles do you do per annum on your commute, who is the fuel glutton here?

Work from home, get a job nearer to home, buy an LML 170mpg scooter (like me) instead of using your car to the job that you HAVE to drive to, quit whinging.