Moaning About Petrol Prices Again

[marinyork]

I suppose only on a cycling forum do you get people saying petrol is not cheap, it's not, it has gone up massively over the last few years especially and is impacting on millions of people. Big petrol companies and the government are the only people gaining, everyone else is losing out including cyclists.

I thought petrol was cheap long before I cycled. I always thought it weird that until the September 2000 fuel protests large numbers of people had little idea how much petrol cost but nevertheless said it was 'expensive'. Now people are much more aware which is good/bad.

I have been unable to get a job in my home town for over 20 years so I have to commute, my wife works for a company who moves her around so she has to commute. She has been moved to the same town as me so we car share. If she moves again and petrol keeps going up I could cycle, due to a medical condition my wife couldn't, not everyone is in a position to cycle, some cyclists seem to forget that!

It's a myth that people aren't aware of medical conditions. A lot of people who are disabled don't have a driving licence and/or don't have a car. These people often find it very irritating that people like you bang on about cars as if everyone has access to them. A lot of the time they have to chance it on very poor bus services that are overpriced. You don't get any reduction for being a carer on a bus, so it's still very expensive .

 

[Fab Foodie]

100% agree with this, I call them kiddie killers

That's very emotive. Is there any evidence that this is the case?

 

[cd365]

I thought petrol was cheap long before I cycled. I always thought it weird that until the September 2000 fuel protests large numbers of people had little idea how much petrol cost but nevertheless said it was 'expensive'. Now people are much more aware which is good/bad.



It's a myth that people aren't aware of medical conditions. A lot of people who are disabled don't have a driving licence and/or don't have a car. These people often find it very irritating that people like you bang on about cars as if everyone has access to them. A lot of the time they have to chance it on very poor bus services that are overpriced. You don't get any reduction for being a carer on a bus, so it's still very expensive .

Where did I say everyone has access to cars? I didn't mention disabled I said she has a medical condition so couldn't cycle so if fuel prices keep going up she would still have to drive.

 

[BSRU]

I suppose only on a cycling forum do you get people saying petrol is not cheap, it's not

Petrol is not expensive, it's just not as cheap as it used to be.

 

[cd365]

That's very emotive. Is there any evidence that this is the case?

Just a personal view, hence the "I call them". They are big and heavy so will cause more damage if they hit anything.

 

[marinyork]

Where did I say everyone has access to cars? I didn't mention disabled I said she has a medical condition so couldn't cycle so if fuel prices keep going up she would still have to drive.

You didn't. However the overwhelming urge in these sorts of debates is for people to emphasise cars as if they are the only form of transport. It comes up so frequently that I think it's worth saying. Medical conditions and disabilities aren't distributed only in those bits of the population with cars. It's not that I particularly have the desire to see people's mobility limited, simply I realise a much fuller picture, one where the mobility of a lot of people is a lot more complicated and harsh.

 

[cd365]

You didn't. However the overwhelming urge in these sorts of debates is for people to emphasise cars as if they are the only form of transport. It comes up so frequently that I think it's worth saying. Medical conditions and disabilities aren't distributed only in those bits of the population with cars. It's not that I particularly have the desire to see people's mobility limited, simply I realise a much fuller picture, one where the mobility of a lot of people is a lot more complicated and harsh.

I think most sensible people realise that there are a lot of people with mobility issues who don't have any decent access to transport and to me this is a massive failing in society today. I know a lot of people who are phsically disabled and their partners are their lifeline, what they will do if anything happens to their partner I don't know. Families don't always step up when needed believing others should!

My mum, god rest her soul, was very active for many years, cycle commuting for a long time, she did this until she got seriously ill with cancer, she then had to rely on family to get her about, that was very difficult for her to deal with being so reliant on others.

 

[sunnyjim]

If all that mattered was 'how much fuel you consume' than racking-up the price of gas seems the fairest policy, more consumption, more paying.
But it's not that simple, that's why a range of measures are required. Big vehicles require more resources to build and maintain, gas-guzzlers sitting in town traffic polute far more than efficient tiddlers's for the same journey, Gas guzzlers/large vehicles add more to congestion than small cars.
Ask yourself whether you'd rather scoot/cycle around amongst streets of Brutalist Range-Rovers or C1s and Pandas?

To me it's a no-brainer, it'll have to happen eventually, why not now? Mostly as Uncle-Phil said, it's a mental/status thing for most people more than anything else.

I actually think 4x4s should be means tested, you have to proove you need one.

I need mine because sometimes I want to tow a boat and carry lumpy stuff for pleasure, and can only justify one car which covers fewer annual miles than I cycle and renting isn't economic. Is that OK as a reason? Or do I need to proove I 'need' a boat.

Actually I'm in favour of your desire to change the 'lifestyle' unneccessarily large vehicle culture. But why draw the line at some particular car size (co-incidentally just a bit bigger than whatever you choose to drive). Why not make anything bigger than a scooter means tested? or other than an electric car, or a bubblecar, or a bicycle, or make it illegal to drive more than 50 miles/week or live more than 5 miles from work? Attacking one small group - however distasteful some of their members - isn't going to change the culture, and smaller more efficient cars might make the situation worse IMO if it encourages more of them at the expense of public transport.

 

[MarkF]

If all that mattered was 'how much fuel you consume' than racking-up the price of gas seems the fairest policy, more consumption, more paying.
But it's not that simple, that's why a range of measures are required. Big vehicles require more resources to build and maintain, gas-guzzlers sitting in town traffic polute far more than efficient tiddlers's for the same journey, Gas guzzlers/large vehicles add more to congestion than small cars.
Ask yourself whether you'd rather scoot/cycle around amongst streets of Brutalist Range-Rovers or C1s and Pandas?

To me it's a no-brainer, it'll have to happen eventually, why not now? Mostly as Uncle-Phil said, it's a mental/status thing for most people more than anything else.

I actually think 4x4s should be means tested, you have to proove you need one.

I don't know Fab, surely consumption of fuel (and the subsequent emissions) is the main issue? I am sure my 4L Jeep did require more resources to build, but it's now 13 years old and will ( I hope) still be going for a decade more, at least, they are meccano-esque simple. I wonder what the lifespan of a supercharged & turbocharged 500c Fiat will be?

I too agree about the image/status thing, but it's just as prevalent at the other end too. Before Smart's and Eco-drives I didn't see hoards of uber drivers heading to the Aixam showroom did you?

 

[User482]

I don't know Fab, surely consumption of fuel (and the subsequent emissions) is the main issue? I am sure my 4L Jeep did require more resources to build, but it's now 13 years old and will ( I hope) still be going for a decade more, at least, they are meccano-esque simple. I wonder what the lifespan of a supercharged & turbocharged 500c Fiat will be?

I too agree about the image/status thing, but it's just as prevalent at the other end too. Before Smart's and Eco-drives I didn't see hoards of uber drivers heading to the Aixam showroom did you?

Most emissions in the life cycle of a car occur during its use - manufacturing and disposal are a small percentage. So yes, a little Fiat will consume fewer resources than your Jeep, even if it only lasts half as long.

 

[The Jogger]

If your car was doing 50 mpg before the recent rises although good mileage you are still paying a lot more for the gallon. Some people have older cars, can't afford more modern fuel efficient cars and live out in the sticks with a poor transport system. Why should these people have to pay for the unnecessary hikes in fuel prices.

 

[Brandane]

Work from home, get a job nearer to home, buy an LML 170mpg scooter (like me) instead of using your car to the job that you HAVE to drive to, quit whinging.

What a nice, idealic little world you must live in!

Work from home? Suppose that works if you can do your job on a computer, but if you drive a truck?

Get a job nearer to home? Do you think people haven't tried this? In case you hadn't noticed there is a recession going on and jobs - certainly in my part of the country - are rare as hens teeth.

Buy an LML 170mpg scooter. Fine; as long as you can rely on your skint local roads authority to grit the roads in time for you setting off to work. Last winter that was not the case where I live. It was treacherous in the car, never mind 2 wheels (and I say that as a biker of 25 years experience).

Petrol is way over-taxed. The cost of it has meant that I no longer travel 30 miles each way to work. Instead I do not work; quite simply it wasn't worth it. As for getting a job closer to home, please see above (but I AM trying!). Public transport was not an option due to early start times. Cycling also a non starter due to busy trunk roads involved. Some roads are simply too dangerous to risk in the dark (or daylight for that matter).

 

[Brandane]

Although petrol is vastly over-priced, I do not blame the oil companies. According to this source: http://www.candidmoney.com/articles/article186.aspx
the oil companies only receive about 44 pence from a £1.30 litre of petrol.

For that 44 pence they have to find the oil, extract it from the ground, transport it to a refinery, turn it into petrol, and then transport it to a petrol station. When compared to bottled water or fizzy drinks, that process is quite a bargain! It is not until the greedy Government want their share that the price rockets. Excise duty 59 pence and then VAT (including VAT on the excise duty!!) 21.7 pence. The retailer gets about 5 pence.

I do not subscribe to the notion that the Government want us to leave the car at home and use public transport. No way; the income they get from the tax is a nice little earner. So why should they worry themselves about providing a good public transport system?
They will continue to charge as much as they think the public will tolerate. They are in danger of over doing it now, as has been shown by the reduction in petrol sales. Hence why they will probably drop the 3p increase in duty (plus VAT of course) which is due in January. And make themselves out to be good guys in the process......

 

[Piemaster]

I'm with Brandane on costs. The oil companies and retailers do a marvellous job getting fuel into your car for so little money. They make the vast profits because of the quantities of the stuff that are sold and the ingenuity and engineering in getting the stuff out of the ground is amazing.

This doesn't mean that I'm not in favour of reducing car useage though. I'm hoping to get my xtracycle conversion finished tomorrow!

 

[benb]

Petrol is way over-taxed. The cost of it has meant that I no longer travel 30 miles each way to work. Instead I do not work; quite simply it wasn't worth it.

Hmm. Let's say you got a measly 20mpg out of your car. That's 3 gallons, or 14 litres.
At £1.40 a litre, that's £19.60. Let's round it up to £20. Even minimum wage would pay that off in less than 4 hours.