running red lights

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 1442703"]
It's not a bad question, because it's led you on to the next point. Which is, if it is impossible to pay whether an accident could have happened, then those claiming it as a reason for RLJing are basing the reason on nothing.

As it stands, it's not an impossible question at all. If you jump out of the way of an approaching car and it passes through the space you were standing in then there's your example.

The easier one would be to ask who here has ever been hit up the chuff while waiting at lights?

Anyone?
[/quote]


Yep. Twice in sarf landan in the 00'swhen I used to commute from Clapham Junction/East Croydon to Brixton. My stupid, ill considered and idiotic response was to start RLJ'ing

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Yep. Twice in sarf landan in the 00'swhen I used to commute from Clapham Junction/East Croydon to Brixton. My stupid, ill considered and idiotic response was to start RLJ'ing

Me too, twice up the chuff in S London - Ladywell and Brixton. ''Luckily" I was in a car both times so apart from bad whiplash injuries when my car was written off in Ladywell by a red-light shunter no physical harm. Just a lot of expense and a reluctance to trust the driver behind me to be paying attention.

 

[Andrew_P]

I would obey the law.

You have never ever broken any laws of the road?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Yes I have when I was younger. Now I do my utmost to stay with in law. I may accidentally drift above the prescribed speed limit but not intentionally. I will not run red lights unless it would be foolish not to do so (emergency vehicle behind for example). I stop at Stop signs, give way at junctions, never use a mobile phone, I could go on??

You have never ever broken any laws of the road?

 

[gavintc]

Here in Naples, red lights for cyclists are completely optional. I do not think I have stopped at one for over a year. Indeed, I have found that edging forward from the line and choosing when to cross is so much safer than waiting for green. The green light can become a 'whacky races start' scenario and on a bike, I do not want to be worrying about what is going on behind me. It works here, but when I lived in UK, I would stop at red lights.

 

[Dan B]

Yes I have when I was younger. Now I do my utmost to stay with in law. I may accidentally drift above the prescribed speed limit but not intentionally. I will not run red lights unless it would be foolish not to do so (emergency vehicle behind for example). I stop at Stop signs, give way at junctions, never use a mobile phone, I could go on??

The advice from the emergency services is that you should not break the law to get out of their way.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I'll remember that the next time a Police Car is running blue and twos and I am at a set of lights.

The advice from the emergency services is that you should not break the law to get out of their way.

 

[lejogger]

Absolutely. A pleasure to have a reasoned discussion on this topic for a change! Shall we do helmets next?

Haha, I'm sure we'll cross paths again in another post...

I thought we'd all made friends, but it's rumbled on for another couple of pages... as I imagine red lights, helmets and pavements always do every time they surface!

 

[RedRider]

Thought experiment: if it were made illegal as a pedestrian to cross the road at a crossing point except when the "green man" signal is showing (as I believe it is in some other countries including Germany and the US), what would be your response?

Practicality, common sense and duty as an alert citizen would lead me to disobey such a law and I suspect organised campaigns of civil disobedience would make a joke of it in short time.

So in that case why don't we RLJ on our bikes even when safe to do so? Existing social expectation/habit comes into play here and a linked concern not to diminish the image of cyclists. For me anyway, but I am conflicted about it. (Is it ok to be unsure about something on this forum?)

In London at least where there are many cyclists and therefore many who run red lights, is it fanciful to suggest that RLJers are beating a desire line towards a more sensible law?

 

[martint235]

Practicality, common sense and duty as an alert citizen would lead me to disobey such a law and I suspect organised campaigns of civil disobedience would make a joke of it in short time.

Would it though? Many countries have similar laws with no campaign of disobedience. IIRC France has a similar law, several US states only allow you to cross at a green man crossing etc. And if any one was going to go for civil disobedience it would be the French. In the UK, I think it would take a while to bed in but eventually people would just get on with it. Remember the "I'll still smoke in the pub they'll never stop me" and "Not wearing a seatbelt ever" brigades, sure there are people who break the law but the majority have just adapted. The UK, as a country, is fantastic in its ability to adapt to something that is hated initially by the majority.

 

[Norm]

I'll remember that the next time a Police Car is running blue and twos and I am at a set of lights.

It would be good to do so. If there is a traffic light camera, for instance, you shouldn't be certain that you could get off the fine with that as a defence.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Very well put - Go back further 1925 or 1930 and you have drink driving laws introduced. Even in 1968 when the breathalyser was authorised for use people where up in arms but most people abide by the drink drive laws.

Would it though? Many countries have similar laws with no campaign of disobedience. IIRC France has a similar law, several US states only allow you to cross at a green man crossing etc. And if any one was going to go for civil disobedience it would be the French. In the UK, I think it would take a while to bed in but eventually people would just get on with it. Remember the "I'll still smoke in the pub they'll never stop me" and "Not wearing a seatbelt ever" brigades, sure there are people who break the law but the majority have just adapted. The UK, as a country, is fantastic in its ability to adapt to something that is hated initially by the majority.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I appreciate that. In that one instance however I would plead mitigation.

It would be good to do so. If there is a traffic light camera, for instance, you shouldn't be certain that you could get off the fine with that as a defence.

 

[Dan B]

Would it though? Many countries have similar laws with no campaign of disobedience. IIRC France has a similar law, several US states only allow you to cross at a green man crossing etc.

Indeed. The cultural norms seem to be unrelated to the legal requirements: compare Dallas with NYC for example. I didn't even realise it was the law in France, but most of my time near any French roads has been in Paris. In Berlin I'd say it was about 50% observed.

 

[lejogger]

Here in Naples, red lights for cyclists are completely optional. I do not think I have stopped at one for over a year. Indeed, I have found that edging forward from the line and choosing when to cross is so much safer than waiting for green. The green light can become a 'whacky races start' scenario and on a bike, I do not want to be worrying about what is going on behind me. It works here, but when I lived in UK, I would stop at red lights.

It would be interesting to know whether cyclist's obedience of red lights is based on their respect for the law, or their own opinions of good and bad cycling. Is it just the fact that it is law stopping you from doing it?

What would you do if cycling in Naples, or for arguments sake that the law was changed to reflect this in the UK? Exercise your right to RLJ as permissable by law, or disagree with the law and stick to your belief that the law allowing you to RLJ is a bad/wrong one.