Sadly loosing interest in cycling

[ClichéGuevara]

I think it's an odd trait of human nature that be it driving, on holiday, riding a bike or any other activity, we barely notice the 99% of nice decent people, but that moronic one percent play on our mind and stay in our memory.

I saw a programme about road rage, that focussed on one white van man. It started by just sitting in the passenger seat letting him point out all the bad driving that angered him. He was asked how often it happened, and he said 'every single day'. The narrator asked him, 'so why are you still surprised by it'?

I guess there are two points and a caveat there. First, it's not so much cyclists that are targeted by these people, it's anyone they take exception to. If you can accept people aren't perfect, their peculiar actions are sort of predictable or at least unsurprising and can be ignored for the displays of inadequacy they are.

The caveat is that the consequences of incompetence can be greater for vulnerable road users, but by assuming the other user is one of the idiots, we can start to ride in a way that protects us better.

 

[sidevalve]

Abuse can never be justified, but can you alter your riding style to reduce it a bit?

On the rare occasions I hold up cars, I do my best to let them through, even pulling into a gateway or lay by when I wouldn't otherwise have stopped.

I was grinding up a single lane hill a while ago.

No abuse, but I stopped when the queue behind reached about six vehicles, including a bus.

Having said that, I have had isolated random abuse from people in cars and pedestrians, so I do know where you are coming from.

A thoughtfull rider - sorry but that really is getting rare. How many cyclists these days seem to ride with a big chip on their shoulders and have the same attitude as the car drivers they all hate so much. In this thread we have abused car drivers, 4x4 drivers, tractor drivers, horse riders and walkers - as usual it's always somebody else's fault. As a walker I have been abused by riders for not getting out of the way on bridleways towpaths and even footpaths so arseh---s can be everywhere.
Just a thought, and I may be way off but how do you ride - be 100% honest with yourself are you regarding each ride as a sort of 'me and them' war ? Being assertive is one thing but it can be pushed just a tad too far.
Where abouts in Barnsley are you trying to ride ? I have worked down there and there are some 'strange' areas. IMHO you have two options
1 - as above get out into the country [either by [OOHH dreaded word] car] or train and take the bike or - sorry to say on a cycling forum [and I expect a lot of 'abuse' [] for this ]
2 - get a motorcycle - in over 35 years of riding I have never met a miserable biker or one that wouldn't go out of his / her way to help out [and yes that includes 'patch clubs' angels, clubs, classic riders etc. Will the other drivers like you any more - no, but you will find a lot of friends.

 

[Drago]

Blooming well said Sidevalve. One of the things that grinds my gears about the cycling community is the overwhelming tendency to blame everyone else for all of life's ills, and very little compulsion to take responsibility for ones own safety.

 

[glenn forger]

I agree and also notice that when people I have met before see me as a cyclist they ask me stupid questions about other cyclists I have never met , if I jump red lights and if I ride on the pavement .
I turned up to a building site last week to measure for a window . I know all the guys there and it was quicker to ride there . As soon as one of the guys saw my bike he told me that he would run me over if he saw me on the road . Now granted that this man is a total tit and the only reason he has a job is because his daddy runs the building firm but it was just seeing the bike that made his neanderthal reaction . Plus the fact he is a tit and would have trouble running over his own foot

I've just had this. New job, meet the colleagues, one discovered I cycle and launched into a frankly implausible anecdote about a cycling scraping the side of his car. This is actually very hard to do if you think about it, your arms and legs get in the way. Anyway, it was an unlikely tale that had the square root of sod all to do with me, as he was told by another person in the group, who told him to get back in his box.

I've noticed too the curious incidents of people professing hatred for cyclists in order to fit, I mean they parrot what they've heard because picking on an out group makes people feel better, if you are disenfranchised or disadvantaged then the a
Peal of a scapegoat is very powerful, it can assign group status to the hater. Look at me, I hate cyclists, aren't I cool! Very strange and troubling.

 

[glenn forger]

Blooming well said Sidevalve. One of the things that grinds my gears about the cycling community is the overwhelming tendency to blame everyone else for all of life's ills, and very little compulsion to take responsibility for ones own safety.

You keep making this claim, you keep being asked who you mean, which poster, which post, you never reply, so stop posting made up nonsense.

 

[the cycling pikey]

Can't say I've ever had a lot of abuse, maybe the sawn off shotgun fixed to my handlebars puts them off,,but seriously,, can't say I've had a lot ever and I've been cycling over 30 years now and I've done plenty of tours around the country,

 

[Gravity Aided]

I've always had a good turn of people, it seems, as I've never had much trouble from them. Lord knows, if I had some of the encounters mentioned here, I'd be thinking twice about going out on the bike. But I'm lucky enough to live in a community and parish that is used to seeing cyclists more so than a lot of other places in the States.

 

[blazed]

I feel sorry for people who have to cycle in places like Barsnley. Well I don't actually feel sorry but there is a tiny, tiny bit of empathy there.

I know when I occainsonly venture in local sh*t holes like Luton/Dunstable how bad a place to cycle they are. Some people don't have much choice, even in a place like Barnsley the surrounding rural areas will be full of inbreds.

 

[Drago]

You keep making this claim, you keep being asked who you mean, which poster, which post, you never reply, so stop posting made up nonsense.

I don't mean anyone specific, else I would have named names. I mean the cycling community in general, and that's clear from my words that you have quoted. Shame you didn't actually read them before feigning indignance. In many cycling quarters (including on here quite sometimes) Its "mad drivers" this, "murderous car drivers" that, but a fair proportion of those doing the complaining have very poor 2 wheeled road craft of their own yet seem utterly blind to this short coming and still feel its appropriate to blame everyone else for the state of road safety culture the UK.

You can see for yourself the number of threads on here where a cyclist has come a cropper, and while legally it may often the the fault of another road user the entire episode could regularly have been avoided had the rider made some different decisions about their conduct on the road. This forum isn't quite so bad for it,but CTC is full of it, one of the main reasons I don't visit their establishment. Laying in the road screaming "IT WAS MY RIGHT OF WAY!" won't pop those broken bones back together and tuck them neatly back under your skin.

Get yourself qualified and come and do some advanced road skills training with me, and you can hear for yourself riders blaming car drivers for all the Worlds ills, and then marvel at the same riders dreadful road craft as they totter off on 2 wheels.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

the state of road safety culture the UK.

I agree with your opinions, and comments regarding, essentially. Better to be alive, than be right and dead.

However, this quote I picked out, as I don't believe there is really a "state" of road safety. There's always improvements that can be made, but try not to lose the sense of relativity, our roads are quite safe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

If you order the list by fatalities by billion vehicle km travelled, we are quite near the bottom of the list of the countries with recorded data. Lower in fact than the often claimed cycling haven of Holland.

In fact, no matter how the fatalities are measured, we are always among the safest roads in the world.

So, although improvements can be made, the UK is actually one of the safest places in the world to be a road user.

 

[glenn forger]

I agree with your opinions, and comments regarding, essentially. Better to be alive, than be right and dead.





In fact, no matter how the fatalities are measured, we are always among the safest roads in the world.

It's statistical illiteracy of this calibre that infects even government. We have one of the worst rates of school-aged children getting killed on the roads in western Europe, despite walking and cycling rates being deflated.

https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpre...-cycle-safety-from-penning-and-baker-in-full/

The UK had a child pedestrian death rate double the rates of Norway and the Netherlands.
In the UK, 48% of children killed on the roads were child pedestrians - this is the highest proportion in western European countries.
Including all ages, 23% of UK road deaths were pedestrians - again the highest proportion in western European countries.
It is not clear why UK pedestrians take such a high share of UK road casualties, but some possible factors are poor speed limit enforcement, high urban speed limits, lack of legal protection for pedestrians, and the high UK drink-driving limit.

travelindependent.org.uk/casualties_european.html

Poor speed limit enforcement

The UK issues fewer speeding tickets per head than almost all of the other 13 countries in this comparison [2]. The Netherlands and Austria issue about 20 times as many speeding tickets as the UK per head.
High urban speed limits

Some countries have extensive 30km/h (20mph) speed limits in residential areas. The UK is now starting to introduce these, but there are uncertainties over the commitment of the police to enforce them [3] [4].

Lack of legal protection (assumed liability)

In France, Belgium and the Netherlands, liability for personal injury damages suffered by a pedestrian after being hit by a vehicle rests with the driver involved, unless it can be shown that the pedestrian acted in a way that was clearly illegal and/or seriously negligent [5]. This is said to make drivers very careful not to risk collisions with pedestrians or cyclists.

The high UK drink-driving limit.

The drink-driving limit is higher in the UK (and the Republic of Ireland) at 80mg/ml than it is in the rest of Europe, where it is 50mg/ml or less. [6].

 

[bladesman73]

I grew up in sheffield and yes south yorks is full of thick wannabe hardmen.. Its a dump. I live in essex now and whilst it isnt perfect its a world away from that godforsaken hole.

 

[PhilDawson8270]

It's statistical illiteracy of this calibre that infects even government. We have one of the worst rates of school-aged children getting killed on the roads in western Europe, despite walking and cycling rates being deflated.

https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpre...-cycle-safety-from-penning-and-baker-in-full/

The UK had a child pedestrian death rate double the rates of Norway and the Netherlands.
In the UK, 48% of children killed on the roads were child pedestrians - this is the highest proportion in western European countries.
Including all ages, 23% of UK road deaths were pedestrians - again the highest proportion in western European countries.
It is not clear why UK pedestrians take such a high share of UK road casualties, but some possible factors are poor speed limit enforcement, high urban speed limits, lack of legal protection for pedestrians, and the high UK drink-driving limit.

travelindependent.org.uk/casualties_european.html

Poor speed limit enforcement

The UK issues fewer speeding tickets per head than almost all of the other 13 countries in this comparison [2]. The Netherlands and Austria issue about 20 times as many speeding tickets as the UK per head.
High urban speed limits

Some countries have extensive 30km/h (20mph) speed limits in residential areas. The UK is now starting to introduce these, but there are uncertainties over the commitment of the police to enforce them [3] [4].

Lack of legal protection (assumed liability)

In France, Belgium and the Netherlands, liability for personal injury damages suffered by a pedestrian after being hit by a vehicle rests with the driver involved, unless it can be shown that the pedestrian acted in a way that was clearly illegal and/or seriously negligent [5]. This is said to make drivers very careful not to risk collisions with pedestrians or cyclists.

The high UK drink-driving limit.

The drink-driving limit is higher in the UK (and the Republic of Ireland) at 80mg/ml than it is in the rest of Europe, where it is 50mg/ml or less. [6].

In short, we'd save more lives focussing on keep pedestrians safer than focusing on cycling?

 

[glenn forger]

Only if you have difficulty reading.

We would save more lives, pedestrians and cyclists, if we concentrate on who poses the danger. Drivers.

 

[Simontm]

Only if you have difficulty reading.

We would save more lives, pedestrians and cyclists, if we concentrate on who poses the danger. Drivers.

Not disagreeing with your main points vis-à-vis enforcement and the like above but it is not just drivers, all road users have a duty of care to themselves and others. Today, a pedestrian saw me signalling to turn left and took it as their cue to cross the road in front of me, making me change my actions - why did he do it? I don't know but he did. I have had idiots from Kingston Wheelers pass me far too close considering the potholed mess that is the Portsmouth Road. They left me no room to manoeuvre and failed in their duty of care to others.

I've often thought that there seems to be a change in attitude where a lot of the populous now act to their own end - as in they don't care about others. A lot of people will walk down a street and not alter their course regardless of what is in front of them. Everyone has to alter their course because someone is busy texting, or two mums think it is perfectly reasonable to force a person on crutches into the road because they want to talk while wheeling their four-by-four pushchairs. It's pushing a 10 year old out of the way who is trying to get off a train (and yes that happened to my daughter. The man concerned got backed away from the train and missed any chance of a seat - you don't eff around with a 6'2" ex-rugby player if you upset his kid ). Now put that behaviour onto the roads, be it as a pedestrian, cyclist, driver, biker whatever.

And of course, there is also ignorance - it is children aged eleven or twelve who are involved in the most incidences with vehicles and road safety teams think this is down to it being the time when kids become unsupervised by parents and go out on their own. Doesn't matter how much you teach them, kids get distracted, forget their road safety.

It would be simple if it was just drivers. Yes drivers are pillocks, and yes the result of their actions, by the sheer fact of travelling in a ton of metal, will generally have more severe consequences but they are not the only road users and to single them out ignores the responsibilities we all have as road users.