Sleeping bag guidance

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Location
Hampshire
We've just done a two week tour of Flanders and I used a Gelert bag I paid 20 euro for in a French supermarket last year, weighs less than a kilo and packs pretty small. I don't think I spent a single night with it zipped up and I've used it down to about 8 deg C in the past and been fine.
Obviously it's horses for courses but I think quite a few people spend a lot of money on high tech sleeping bags when they really don't need too.
 

rowan 46

Über Member
Location
birmingham
We've just done a two week tour of Flanders and I used a Gelert bag I paid 20 euro for in a French supermarket last year, weighs less than a kilo and packs pretty small. I don't think I spent a single night with it zipped up and I've used it down to about 8 deg C in the past and been fine.
Obviously it's horses for courses but I think quite a few people spend a lot of money on high tech sleeping bags when they really don't need too.

You can get away with an awful lot lighter cooler stuff in continental summer than you can britain in late spring or autumn. It's not uncommon to have snow at the beginning of june or frost at the beginning of september. the cost goes up because of the performance. A heavy warm sleeping bag is cheap to make as is a light cool one. the expensive ones are light and warm. I would have no problems with a light gelert sleeping bag in europe during summer they are just the job.
I have never been cycle touring/camping but used to do a lot of backpacking walking holidays for backpacking the priority is tent sleeping cooking then anything else. If you don't get a good nights sleep touring is no fun. A warm sleeping bag can be unzipped a cold one means more clothes and an uncomfortable night.
 

jay clock

Massive member
Location
Hampshire UK
I have two PHD bags. Minim Ultra Down weighs in at 350g and ok down to about 8 degrees and the other weighs about 550g and is Minim 300 (special edition) which looks like about 0 degrees. I do have a silk liner to add if it is cold. However PHD are very pricey and over your budget.

Take with a pinch of salt any comments about "weigh next to nothing" until you have seen the item packed and weighed it on your own scales. My old down bag says 960g on the bag and actually weighs 1200g

I also have their Mimimus jacket http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=110&products_id=110 and vest http://www.phdesigns.co.uk/product_info.php?cat=111&products_id=112 and these are simply STUNNING bits of kit (particularly the vest.)

I had the jacket with me as I got off the plane from Lanzarote in December snow at Gatwick and it was wonderful

PHD commercial now over!
 

jay clock

Massive member
Location
Hampshire UK
What are you useing these for, summer trips to France or winter trips to Norway? The reason I ask is people recommend the most expensive, bestest and usually over the top items. This summer I bought a Karrimor global 900 bag (28cmx17cm pack size)(£30) bag liner (£5) and vango self inflating 3/4 (£14) all pack up super small and weigh next to nowt. They were more than enough for France/Spain in july (never needed the liner).

re my comment about "weighing next to nothing" above, from what I can see the Karrimor 900 global seems to be 1060g (claimed, so probably more). Which is quite heavy and certainly not nowt....However you do need to balance budget against performance, and agreed that European summer you can get away with much less
 

Christopher

Über Member
Dunno how tall you are Crackle but a couple of years ago I had a terrible time finding a decent down bag long enough for me (I am over 6'). Ended up getting it through REI in the U.S.

Also you may want to consider a pair of similar bags with opposing zips (on left-hand, one right) for you and your partner - it means you can zip the bags together, although I am told you get cold spots in the corners of the combined bag.
 
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Crackle

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I have two PHD bags. Minim Ultra Down weighs in at 350g and ok down to about 8 degrees and the other weighs about 550g and is Minim 300 (special edition) which looks like about 0 degrees. I do have a silk liner to add if it is cold. However PHD are very pricey and over your budget.

Take with a pinch of salt any comments about "weigh next to nothing" until you have seen the item packed and weighed it on your own scales. My old down bag says 960g on the bag and actually weighs 1200g

I also have their Mimimus jacket http://www.phdesigns...products_id=110 and vest http://www.phdesigns...products_id=112 and these are simply STUNNING bits of kit (particularly the vest.)

I had the jacket with me as I got off the plane from Lanzarote in December snow at Gatwick and it was wonderful

PHD commercial now over!


PHD stuff does look good. Those initial weights would be lovely to achieve but as you say out of my budget. That said, I won't be buying until I've seen them in the flesh and tried them. It could be I end up upping my budget to achieve a lower weight and pack size, I do have 10 months or so to spread the purchase cost. I think I will also end up buying Mrs Crackle a down bag as she likes a warm bag, which in a synthetic will be too bulky and heavy, whereas I'm a much warmer sleeper.

Chris I don't need to worry about the length or zipping them together, you do get a terrible draught down the middle, better to use a duvet than bags for that or use them as a duvet.
 
Location
Hampshire
Slightly OT but I've heard conflicting advice as to whether down bags can be washed and dried in a domestic washing maching & tumble dryer or have to be professionally cleaned. I'm actually looking for another bag to use down to 2 or 3 deg c and realise I might have to fork out more than 20 euro this time. If it can be washed at home I'd go for a down one.
 

willem

Über Member
It pays to think about this from the bottom up: most warmth is lost to the ground. Fortunately mattress technology has moved on enormously over the last few years with the advent of insulated air mattresses. These are far lighter, warmer, more comfortable and pack smaller than old style self inflatables. New models are coming onto the market almost every month, and sometimes at premium prices. However, on a tighter budget two models stand out, depending on the temperature range you need. If it is only for the summer, the new Thermarest Neoair Trekker is the budget model in their Neoair range. I weighs 570 grams, and packs incredibly small. For more warmth, I would choose the budget mat in the Exped line: the Exped Synmat Basic 7.5 at 720 grams, and a significantly higher R value of R=4.0.
If your kids are youngish, I would go for a synthetic bag as these are less fragile. We got a small size middle weight Ajungilak in a half price sale, and it has served us well, even if as with all synthetic bags insulation deteriorates quicker than with down. If they are older, I would go for a cheap down mummy. I like Alpkit for that. For you and your wife there are other options. With modern warm mattresses you really do not need additional warmth underneath from a bag. An expensive solution would be a down top bag such as I had made for my wife and myself: http://www.tatteljee...eepersoons.html My wife's side has a much higher down fill weight than mine. It saves money and weight/volume by omitting the bottom of a two person bag. For us it was the successor to a bag system that we had used for the preceeding thirty years: a largish rectangular solo down sleeping bag with zip on two sides, zipped open as a duvet (I don't see these often from UK shops, but they are very common in Holland). Next get a rectangular sleeping bag liner for two people, and sew a matching zipper to the sides. Zip the bag to the top of the liner and you are done. Western Mountaineering (they call it their summer coupler) and some Dutch shops sell them ready made, but some homework can save a lot of money. It works fine for summer and early autumn temperatures, Beyond that, the temperature leaks from the sides will make it a bit cold. Anyway, the system saves the expense of one down bag, and the weight and volume. It is possible because modern mattresses insulate so much better. So that is why I would go for a somewhat warmer mattress.
Finally as for size/weight and where to have it. I like to keep things tightly packed, as this saves on the weight and expense of front panniers and racks. Now that our kids are older (the younger is 13 and will finally get his down bag next year), we no longer need the front panniers. It pays to consider if you can indeed avoid the expense of the front racks and panniers, and use the money saved to pay for lighter and more compact gear like down bags. On the other hand, if the kids are still young this is hardly an option. I have just come back from a week's cycling in Denmark with my 13 year old son, and it was the first time we both had full size rear panniers (before he only had small ones, and I had both front and rear panniers). I was using my 600 gram PHD solo bag, and he was using the 1600 gram Ajungilak bag he has almost outgrown for the last time. It was fun. I hope you will enjoy your trips as much.
Willem
 

vernon

Harder than Ronnie Pickering
Location
Meanwood, Leeds
re my comment about "weighing next to nothing" above, from what I can see the Karrimor 900 global seems to be 1060g (claimed, so probably more). Which is quite heavy and certainly not nowt....However you do need to balance budget against performance, and agreed that European summer you can get away with much less

This summer, Europe has been cold. I am a warm sleeper and my summer weight bag had to be supplemented with socks on the hands and a layer of clothing for several nights. It came as a shock.
 
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Crackle

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I appreciate the message about the mats but somewhere I will have to make a compromise. I have to buy 4 bags and 4 mats, one tent, some cycle specific clothes for the kids and supplement the one trangia we have. That makes a tasty total already. I need to balance that against how many days use it will get a year.
 
I appreciate the message about the mats but somewhere I will have to make a compromise. I have to buy 4 bags and 4 mats, one tent, some cycle specific clothes for the kids and supplement the one trangia we have. That makes a tasty total already. I need to balance that against how many days use it will get a year.


Cheap price/quality could jeopardise the whole adventure, resulting in a dislike of camping (Dad :laugh: ) forever.

Warmth/comfort and dryness are the important factors here (and at this stage, not the transport weight and size and not cost, as you might as well not bother and save LOTS of money).

- Good mattress for warmth and comfort

- OK sleeping bag (summer synthetic)

- OK tent for dryness and cosyness (if you HAVE to spend an unexpected amount of time inside)

Good luck, though: choosing isn't easy.
 

willem

Über Member
I know, and it is why I tried to be creative. If the kids are small, you can easily get away with a cheap closed cell mattress. Just to be sure: I did refer to the Synmat Basic that goes for some 70 pounds, not the more expensive and heavier Synmat Pump. I suggested looking into mattresses because a warmer mattress saves money on the sleeping bag, and weight/bulk. And saving bulk saves big money on panniers/racks. As for yourselves: perhaps you already use a down duvet at home. With a warm mattress, you could just take the duvet from home.
 
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Crackle

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No criticism intended Willem, just thinking out loud. You're right Dayvo, I need to compromise in the right places. I could use our exisitng basecamp thermarests, they are large and weigh 1.5Kg but 1.5Kg in the overall scheme of things is not so bad or put in perspective it's the weight of a full water bottle more than a Synmat.

The duvet suggestion is appreciated too Willem. We've done similiar in winter when we used to mountaineer a bit but our preference would be bags.

It is Denmark we are thinking of going to next summer and there might be a spring shakedown trip somewhere too.
 

willem

Über Member
Denmark was beautiful (we did a circular tour in central Jutland), with good signposted cycle routes. Prices were high compared to the euro zone, but it was also hard to spend too much: few shops, and even fewer restaurants or cafes. You will not need to buy a larger stove: all camp sites had kitchens for use by campers (though mostly not with pots). And prepare for your own repairs: there must be bike shops, but I did not see them.
Willem
 
Is it possible to get the karrimor global 900 lite? I have seen it in a few shops before and was wandering where i could get one online
 
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